My Friendship Dilemma!!

Jeff01 wrote: I mean I certainly don’t want to ruin her marriage with her husband, or ruin her family life, or anything,

There is your answer. It is crystal clear.

You don’t want to hurt a family. It’s not just one person. It is hurting an entire family. You are hurting a father, a mother, and three children.

How could you live with that damage? By convincing yourself, “But, but, but what about love? What if…what if…?”

While I understand the feelings, they are narcissistic and selfish. You know this.

And this is where I commend you. You posted this question, because you are struggling with these narcissistic, selfish feelings. You want so bad to rationalize and justify “love” as having some higher moral purpose, but you know that is hogwash. You know very well the right thing to do is to leave this family in peace.

Hello. Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it!! One of the reasons why I’m confused is because of something that she herself has told me.

A few years ago, she lost her Dad, who she was very close to, when he died unexpectedly from a heart attack during the middle of the night. So she is always telling people, myself included, which is:

“If you love someone, make sure that you tell them today, because you aren’t promised a tomorrow.”

I don’t want to ruin anything and jeopardize my 43-year-old friendship with her. I don’t want to ruin her family life for her children. I want her to know, incase something ever did happen to me, before I ever got a chance to tell her, how special she has always been to me, and that even though we might be only really close friends, I will always love her with all my heart.

And not to go into too many details, but for those wonder, yes, there have been problems between her and her husband over the last couple of years. He is often very verbally abusive to her, constantly calling her names like "fat", "ugly", "worthless", "a 450 pound beached whale", and much worse. She is actually underweight, and only weighs 90 pounds!

It's gotten so bad between her and the husband, that they sleep in separate bedrooms, and have been for 2 years now. He has his own bedroom upstairs, and she has her own bedroom downstairs.

Unfortunately, they both own everything 50/50, the house, the cars, a vacation home in another state, etc. It’s gotten so bad that they have been sleeping in separate bedrooms for the last two years. She has told the husband to leave, but he refuses to do so because he says, “it’s his house too.” He said that he wants “her to leave.”

She’s afraid that if she leaves, he’s going to run right to his lawyer and claim that she “abandoned the three kids, and took off, and left them behind,” and then he will get custody of them. I asked her what she plans on doing about this whole situation, and she said that while she “HATES her husband, the kids are her whole life, and she can’t leave them behind, so she stays there and remains miserable, being stuck married to this guy.”

She can’t just leave and take the kids with her because she has no place to go. After all, she has no job besides being a mom and a housewife. Her only income is monthly SSI because she has many physical and mental health problems that she deals with, like severe depression, severe anxiety, memory loss, adult ADHD, asthma, allergies, problems with her neck, back, and back knees, etc.

And unfortunately, I don’t have the room to take her and her three kids in because I’m only in a one-bedroom place right now.

Jeff01 wrote:A few years ago, she lost her Dad, who she was very close to, when he died unexpectedly from a heart attack during the middle of the night. So she is always telling people, myself included, which is:

“If you love someone, make sure that you tell them today, because you aren’t promised a tomorrow.”

This is a rationalization.

There is a HUGE difference between, “I love you dad, thanks for raising me,” and “I love you, let’s permanently commit to each other and have sex.”

You know this.

But, you want to act like they are the same thing. Why? Well…because if they are the same thing then you have a reason, a justification for doing what’s best for you amd can even blame it on people other than you.

When members of the family ask why you tried to destroy the family, your response is, “Well, years ago you said you are not promised tomorrow…so I took your advice. It’s your fault that I told you.”

I’m not saying precisely the above…it’s the way humans try to reduce regret. We know we are doing the wrong thing, but we explain away our responsibility.

And the funny thing is, while I am 100% percent heterosexual and straight, I don’t even look at, or think about my female friend sexually at all. Here’s the thing though, I don’t want her and me to have an extramarital affair.

And it’s weird because I probably should, because she’s gorgeous, 5 foot 2, 90 pounds, long straight Blond hair, and gorgeous light Brown eyes, a great smile that will light up a room, she’s a real beauty, but I don’t even think about her sexually.

I went through a bad marriage, in which I was verbally abused by my ex-wife, who stole money and valuables from both my family members and me, creating problems in which they were mad at me because of what she did.

I have also battled with anxiety and depression because of things my ex-wife did to me, and my female friend understands this and is always there to talk to me, support me, listen to me, etc. Her just talking to me, and caring for me, and being a great friend to me, is what makes me love her.

She has been such a blessing to me over the last four years that I don’t know where I would be if she weren’t in my life, and so I love her as a friend, but I love her as a companion as well. But I don’t even think about doing anything with her physically or sexually, because I appreciate what we have with each other right now.

Would I ever want to have a physical or sexual relationship with her? I haven’t even really thought about it. I mean, though, the only thing I have thought about regarding something physical is when her husband, a bully, mentally and emotionally berates her. When he calls her names like “fat”, "ugly", "worthless", or "a 450 pound beached whale", I just wish that I could hold her in my arms, stroke her long blond hair, touch her on the cheek, and tell her how much of a beautiful woman she really is.

Jeff01 wrote:And not to go into too many details, but for those wonder, yes, there have been problems between her and her husband over the last couple of years.

Of course there have been.

You might not realize it, but you are telling the classic, stereotypical "home wrecker" story.

A married couple with three kids. They begin to have a few problems, go figure. They start to grow apart. Enter the "home wrecker". Sometimes it is a coworker, maybe an ex, maybe a life long friend. It is a person the spouse confides that there are "some problems" at home.

The "home wrecker" is labeled such, because they are an opportunist. They skirt the edges, being a good "confidant", being a shoulder to cry on. But, in the back of the mind they think, "What if?"

Note, I'm not saying it starts off as intentional opportunism. Initially, it begins with simply discovering the marriage has issues. It's only a bit later that the "What if" question begins to creep in. "What if the marriage fails? Maybe I have a shot here."

So the "home wrecker" begins to be available and develop the relationship. It is "innocent". They hide their true feelings and they hide their true motives...they lie, even to themselves.

Here is a simple question. Do you want her to get a divorce? If you are honest with yourself, the answer is a resounding yes. You don't really care if she loves you. You "love" her and so you want a shot at her. Based on your last post you have already imagined being with her and her kids.

You are not helping her. You are providing "hints" by being more responsive and sweeter to her than her husband. That is what "home wreckers" do. They become temptation. They, indirectly drive a wedge in the relationship.

My advice is to stop being that wedge. Work on being less available.

~
If she has any perceptive abilities at all, she already knows.

I don't see a problem being her friend, and standing by her in a friend way. She, though, needs to work her own way out of her mess of a marriage and start the healing process before getting involved with another person (or so people would say). The children do not benefit from their sour relationship.

You cannot wreck an already wrecked marriage.

Being in love is such a devils den of torture. When you stand on the outside of something you perceive as wanting, you are programmed to hear and see only the things that will help you procure possession of that. But here's the thing. Being a friend and being a spouse are not equal.

The two of you might have best of intentions in your friendship, but you will only hear her perspective and never know the full picture until you walk in her husband's shoes. Its disarming to compare scars and be a shoulder for someone in need. That kind of unity while rewarding has a very low bar to meet. Don't kid yourself. Regardless of her trials and tribulations with her husband, if you want to be a real friend, then just listen, but don't get in the middle of that. And as others have said, she understands that you care. And maybe on some level it is love as much as it can be in this situation. But that doesn't validate the need to take action. You have a 40 year friendship. Maybe you best preserve and protect that so it doesn't go anywhere.

Over the last few months, things have really taken a turn. She is now constantly telling me that "she loves me with all her heart", that "I am the last thing on her mind when she goes to bed at night", and "the first person she thinks about when she wakes up in the morning". When we talk on the phone she is constantly saying "I love you". When we send e-mails or texts she is constantly saying "I Love You".

I tell her that I love her as well, and secretly have for like the last 5 years. We are definitely both in an emotional relationship with each other now. Not so much of a physical relationship, but definitely an emotional relationship.

She has already told me that when their youngest child turns 18 and goes off to college in a couple of years, she has no intention of staying with her verbally abusive husband. But for now, she needs to stay there as he is able to provide for her and the kids.

First, please don’t take this response as judgment. I’m only offering up a perspective along with points for consideration. The situation you are in is very common and I’m not the morality police.

Jeff01 wrote:Over the last few months, things have really taken a turn. She is now constantly telling me that "she loves me with all her heart", that "I am the last thing on her mind when she goes to bed at night", and "the first person she thinks about when she wakes up in the morning". When we talk on the phone she is constantly saying "I love you". When we send e-mails or texts she is constantly saying "I Love You".

As do 99% of all people in a new found relationship that has been developing for some time. This includes people being unfaithful to their current partner.

She has already told me that when their youngest child turns 18 and goes off to college in a couple of years, she has no intention of staying with her verbally abusive husband. But for now, she needs to stay there as he is able to provide for her and the kids.

Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. Not always, but mostly. This means if she grows unhappy with your relationship she will most likely talk to other men while rationalizing a reason to stay with you for a few years instead of ending it. When she is comfortable she will make the transition to the new man.

And I understand she has told you of the evils he has inflicted. Let’s take for a moment that these evils are 100% true. Yet these evils are not so horrible that she leaves him now. She will endure his evils and for what? According to what you wrote in this latest response, it’s for the money.

She could leave him immediately. He would still provide for the child. That would not change. And she could then get a job or have you provide for her.

And why are you not stepping up? What is your plan to help her get away early? How can you sit by and let your true love suffer more abuse? Years of it even. Maybe you have offered, but you respect her decision to suffer for the child.

My perspective is that she most likely is driven by both a degree of fear and the comfort you represent. She is…not necessarily intentionally…manipulating the situation to avoid confronting the right decision. That decision is to leave him immediately.

To frame it another way, what is she teaching her children? If she divorces it will come out that she was talking to you for years. Those things don’t stay hidden. And the lesson the children will learn is that their mother was unfaithful for several years.

A third way to frame it. What would she tell her children to do in the exact same situation? Would she tell her son or daughter to stay in an abusive relationship and cheat on their spouse for multiple years “for the grandchild”? I hope not.

Anyway, I know my perspectives are based on a sliver, a snapshot of information and these things are always more complex.

If you’re ok destroying what you think you want to protect, “her relationship with her husband” then go ahead and pose the question. But the question will only have two responses: 1. You get what you think you wanted 2. You don’t and you put a nuclear bomb in the family room of the family you want to protect. On purpose or otherwise.

It takes a lot to ask first for feedback about behavior or action you are considering before you act! Nice work! You don’t have to act on what you feel.. I/you’re responsible for your second thought and first action.

If you’re ok destroying what you think you want to protect, “her relationship with her husband” then go ahead and pose the question. But the question will only have two responses: 1. You get what you think you wanted 2. You don’t and you put a nuclear bomb in the family room of the family you want to protect. On purpose or otherwise.

It takes a lot to ask first for feedback about behavior or action you are considering before you act! Nice work! You don’t have to act on what you feel.. I/you’re responsible for your second thought and first action.

Our relationship with each other has now moved way past the friendship stage. We talked last night, all night long, for at least 10 straight hours. She told me that she hates her husband, and can't stand the site of him anymore. When I asked her if she is going to divorce him and leave him, she told me that she is, but unfortunately not until the youngest child is 18, and off in college, which won't be for another 4 and 1/2 years. ( Her youngest is currently 13 and 1/2 years old ).

She says that she can't bring it upon herself to leave the children, and her family pets as well, so unfortunately she is stuck there living with a guy she hates for another 5 years, to stay with the kids until the youngest one reaches 18 years of age. She told me that when this happens, she then wants me and her to be together as a couple, and spend the rest of our lives together.

I love this woman with all my heart and soul. Do I tough it out for 4 and 1/2 more years to finally be with her, who I know is my true soulmate, and that I want to spend the rest of my life with.

And I'm not breaking anyone up. Their marriage is already an absolute disaster. They were fighting so bad last night, and she was crying hysterically from being so upset. I guess she took a shower, and when she was in the shower, he went into her bedroom and stole her glasses, so that she couldn't see anything. They argued about the stolen glasses, and he got mad, and threw a bottle of sea-salt all over the kitchen floor, and the salt went everywhere, and she had to clean it up.

She made pasta for supper for her and the kids, and he didn't want pasta, and took the pot, and dumped all the pasta down the drain, and into the garbage disposal.

He kept slamming the door to her bedroom open all night long, like 30 times!! He was blasting the TV at 3 am in the morning, so that she couldn't get any sleep.

All kinds of dumb stuff like that!! She wants him to leave the house, but he says he won't, because half of it is his house, and he wants her to leave the house, but she said she won't because of the kids and pets.