How to deal with people unwilling to admit their mistakes?

It really depends on the nature of what one is trying to achieve by having another person admit a mistake. What is the other person needing to accomplish? How will the other person benefit?

For example, if a person is trying to solve a math problem, they may not see the mistake. It is less about admission and more about guidance, helping them discover the error keeping them from the correct answer.

For more subjective issues, the same concept applies. Why a need of admission verses a path of discovery? What is in it for them?

Thank you again for your responsiveness Richard!

Those are good questions you re asking:

Well, the goal is to move on without drama - i posted under "anger management" because constant denial, rebuke or counter-attack is not leading to any quiet discussion. It actually rather heats up the discussion pretty quickly and makes for frustrating communication overall.

So what s in it for them? a way of keeping the discussion nice and quiet, followed by a potential path towards fixing the situation. Am i making sense?

Gitana wrote:Thank you again for your responsiveness Richard!

Those are good questions you re asking:

Well, the goal is to move on without drama - i posted under "anger management" because constant denial, rebuke or counter-attack is not leading to any quiet discussion. It actually rather heats up the discussion pretty quickly and makes for frustrating communication overall.

So what s in it for them? a way of keeping the discussion nice and quiet, followed by a potential path towards fixing the situation. Am i making sense?

Based on your other thread, you need to use the business approach rather than the family business/friendship approach. The business approach has no drama, but it is more cold and detached.

Thanks for this suggestion: I gave the "cold and detached" approach a try and could see some "result" today - although obviously the usual "fun" vibe was not too present.
So i dont like it, but cant deny its effeciency (at least on the short term)

On the long run, i suppose i could use that sort of cold approach when necessary as this is a good way to wake them up - and keep the more "personnal" way the rest of the time to balance out.. or am i the one in denial?

Dear Gitana,

I was talking to Richard on the PM system and it made me think of something.

Maybe you are trying to Assign the Blame way too soon after the Incident. You know about the Five Stages of Grief right? DENIAL, ANGER, BARGAINING, DEPRESSION and ACCEPTANCE. Well, maybe a lot of people are GRIEVED when they make a Mistake. So if you begin to hammer people immediately after an incident, well, shouldn't you Expect them to Deny it? Shouldn't you Expect them to be Angry with you? After that, maybe you get them to Negotiate about just how much of it is their fault, and that is to be expected, right? Then you can just expect them to drop out of sight for a while, because Screwing Up is Depressing. Maybe then after a Month or Two you can have the "It Was All Your Fault" Meeting. But in regards to that, I agree with Richard about just how useful it is to Publically Flog somebody. Seems kind of Sadistic to me. You seem like a nice person so I am surprised that you are so intently blood thirsty about vengeance and retribution. What did the guy do, anyway.... Misplace the Office stapler? Yeah, Off With His Head!

Haha thanks for this Leo
I ll remember the 5 stages, never really internalized those, but i like the concept.

In my case though, it is just a recurrent behavior i ve observed in certain persons - they cant seem to acknowledge any wrong doing, be it sooner of later. And the funny part is that they praise me for always doing so (that is recognizing very quickly my mistakes and taking any blame i deserve in order to improve, learn and keep on going. i have no pride whatsoever, and i m not ashamed of that). I have no business trying to appear right at all cost, especially in a situation where i am NOT right. So why cant these specific people act like that too is beyond my comprehension - thus my posting here.

Partner has recently started to slow down our business by slacking on their duties, and it cant be fixed because they deny it even in front of evidences - that bad faith is frustrating because it creates a road-block, and from that, it is not easy to see the future from an optimistic angle. I dont want to give up without trying everything first. Progress has been made today so it s not all downhill

Maybe i m just stupid, blind, stubborn, coward, i dont know. I just want to cut the BS, fix the situation if possible, move on and avoid time-consuming drama.

And i dont think at all that i m any blood thirsty, i could not care less about revenge in life, really, i have better ways to enjoy existence

Gitana wrote:Haha thanks for this Leo
I ll remember the 5 stages, never really internalized those, but i like the concept.

In my case though, it is just a recurrent behavior i ve observed in certain persons - they cant seem to acknowledge any wrong doing, be it sooner of later. And the funny part is that they praise me for always doing so (that is recognizing very quickly my mistakes and taking any blame i deserve in order to improve, learn and keep on going. i have no pride whatsoever, and i m not ashamed of that). I have no business trying to appear right at all cost, especially in a situation where i am NOT right. So why cant these specific people act like that too is beyond my comprehension - thus my posting here.

Partner has recently started to slow down our business by slacking on their duties, and it cant be fixed because they deny it even in front of evidences - that bad faith is frustrating because it creates a road-block, and from that, it is not easy to see the future from an optimistic angle. I dont want to give up without trying everything first. Progress has been made today so it s not all downhill

Maybe i m just stupid, blind, stubborn, coward, i dont know. I just want to cut the BS, fix the situation if possible, move on and avoid time-consuming drama.

And i dont think at all that i m any blood thirsty, i could not care less about revenge in life, really, i have better ways to enjoy existence

Hi Gtana,

Oh, okay. I think I see better now where you are coming from, and, yes, you have won my sympathies.

Yes, there are people out there with deeply ingrained Psychological Dysfunctions who are practically delusional about their own Self Image. Mostly Narcissists and Paranoids. And they not only can't admit to blame but they don't even perceive that anything is ever their fault. At that level I believe their minds are not operating with any true cognitive resonance. They seem to be thinking 'around' the true reality and so it appears as though they are always deflecting responsibility onto others. Even on a lie detector it would seem that everyone is against them.

Now, about Lazy Business Partners... well, if you started a support group for that... I have friends who are in business and this seems to be a common problem. I do not believe that Any Partnership is created Equal. One Partner is always carrying more weight. Now, yes, you would expect to see some gratitude. Reflecting on my own perception of the Business Partners I know about, it would appear Obvious that one Partner is doing the Lion's Share. But the Other Partners seem to think that they are Doing Something subtle and mysterious which somehow equals their partner's obvious and apparent contribution. It is like that with Figure-Head Silent Partners whose job is simply to Attract business. Good Schmoozers are often good for business while still being lazy as stumps.

But when you roll out the Spread Sheet in front of them and all the trend lines are going South, and you remind them that it was never downhill before until after they they started taking Wednesday afternoons off for Golf, and three times a week go off for 3 hour Martini Lunches, and taking two hours to pick up the mail after those phone calls from some mysterious woman, etc, etc etc. Yes, some partners are just goof offs.

Sometimes you have pull the contract out you filing cabinet and see if you remember right about what it said about buy out options. Hmmmmm. Oh! That might be what is going on. If you have a Partnership Contract that is too generous in regards to Buy Out, then your Partner may actually be Slowing Way Down in order to Push You into a Buy Out. Your Partner may see it as an opportunity to make some good 'Windfall' money. they see their Partnership Status as an asset that they Can Sell. They stand to make More Money being Bought Out than by busting their donkey and 'working hard for the money' as Donna Summers used to sing.

If that is the case, I guess you are screwed. It makes me wonder whose Lawyer drew up the Partnership Contract, yours or his?

If there is no Contract, well then you should discuss Selling Out and splitting the assets. If your Partner strikes terms that don't leave you too screwed over, than take it and move on. Next time see if you can go it alone. Or get a good 9 to 5 Job as a Manager somewhere where you don't have to worry about all that kind of back stabbing stuff anymore.

Hi Leo - thanks for brillantly describing those situations!

I dont mind unbalance, it s part of dynamic, and is therefore everywhere, but i do not like slow down if that becomes the result.

Like in many "artistic" endeavours, we have no physical signed contract, thus the "friendship" situation, but we entertained an evolving written plan, so it s easy to monitor progress (or lackthereof)

You re going straight to the Solution, thank you, i appreciate the advice ;D - although i m still gonna work on finding a shitty middle-way so-so solution in the meantime. Maybe there s a way to fix this. If nothing, then yes i d follow your lead..

Dear Gitana

Oh! a Creative Artistic Partnership! Cool. So, yes, I agree with you that you should keep it together. At least in regards to the Music Industry, a lot of Acts break up because the Big Star wants to go Solo, and then he or she is never able to shine so bright again. .... oh wait... but a lot have, now that I think about it. I guess it breaks both ways.

Well, I am sure you know what you are doing, and it is sweet of you to be tolerant and patient.

Oh, you got me thinking about Partnership Contracts. What I was thinking about this morning when I wrote to you was the "First One To Blink Partnership Contract". What the First Blink Contract specifies is that the Partner who first suggests Buy Out pay out for half the assets together with a Penalty Fee. In effect the First Blinker may have to pay off the other Partner 60% for their 50% share in the Company, or whatever the contractual arrangement is. Such a Contract is actually a Trap. There have been people who made a living out of being Professional Partners. They stick with a company until it is established and then begin to slow way down and attract negative attention, forcing the other Partner to "Blink First" for a buy out and then the Professional Partner walks away with a big bag of money. So why would anybody Sign such a contract. Well, the Professional Partner brings in his own Lawyer ("we can use a lawyer I know. He is a real good Contract guy" ) who justifies the 'First Blink' clause by explaining that sometimes one of the Partners will get greedy after the Company is established and then want everything for his or her self, and so the First Blink provision is there to protect the poor second party who is going to be kicked out become destitute. It Sounds convincing, so that is why Everybody needs to get their Own Lawyer.

Anyway, don't forget us here. I am curious as to how it all works out. and, who doesn't love gossip about Creative Differences?

Thanks for the kind words Leo.

Yes, patience is key - but we had a discussion and we agreed that i d stop being exclusive to our company, in order to make up for the frustration of the slowdown on which i have little grip on. I think it sucks, but i have no choice. I already started with other persons, and while it makes me feel bad, it does make me feel good too. I hope that wakes my partner up at some poing. Either way, happens what may.

Will definitely keep you posted regarding those 'creative differences'

And good tip about everyone having their own lawyer - is it an American (USA) thing though?

Gitana wrote:Thanks for the kind words Leo.

Yes, patience is key - but we had a discussion and we agreed that i d stop being exclusive to our company, in order to make up for the frustration of the slowdown on which i have little grip on. I think it sucks, but i have no choice. I already started with other persons, and while it makes me feel bad, it does make me feel good too. I hope that wakes my partner up at some poing. Either way, happens what may.

Will definitely keep you posted regarding those 'creative differences'

Wow! That's Great. That was what I was hoping for you. You got to get your talent out while it is still green and vibrant. If you stand around waiting for everyone else to be ready, well, something in you could go stale and flat. So Strike while the iron is hot. he who hesitates is lost. Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead. See, you want to get your Talent out before you become like me.

Gitana wrote:And good tip about everyone having their own lawyer - is it an American (USA) thing though?

Yeah, now that you mention it, in America the sharks are everywhere. They work in teams -- one threatens you and the other defends you, and then they go off and split up the loot.

Thanks for your support Leo - very much appreciated and motivating! (i now get a renewed sense of accomplishment, slowly moving toward restoring faith and life mission)

See, you want to get your Talent out before you become like me.

Would you mind developing?...

Yeah, now that you mention it, in America the sharks are everywhere. They work in teams -- one threatens you and the other defends you, and then they go off and split up the loot.

Well observed on which continent are you?