Which subconscious therapy do you think is best? And why?

Motivated wrote:I was impressed by biological information presented by Dr. Bruce Lipton regarding the powerful influence of subconsciousness. He suggested the following to be the 7 most effective subconscious therapies.

1. Clinical Hypnotherapy
2. Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT)
3. Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR)
4. Holographic Reprogramming
5. Avatar
6. Psych-k
7. Body Talk.

What do you think about these?
Which do you think is most effective, or does it depend on the person?

http://smashingbeliefs.com/what-are-the ... pton-ph-d/

It seems to ignore completely the nutritional biochemical influences on behaviour.

Hi Jurplesman,
How did I know you'd mention that?

You do make me wonder how physiology is related subconsciously.
So much of what our bodies constantly do is "involuntary" & I suppose you could say it is run subconsciously. I do acknowledge that we are influenced by many complicated factors, including nutrition and other life-style habitual choices. However, I am most concerned with specific ways to access, diagnose & improve subconscious functions, that precede or influence such lifestyle decisions.

I do hope you had a wonderful Christmas in your part of the world!

Motivated wrote:Hi Jurplesman,
How did I know you'd mention that?

You do make me wonder how physiology is related subconsciously.
So much of what our bodies constantly do is "involuntary" & I suppose you could say it is run subconsciously. I do acknowledge that we are influenced by many complicated factors, including nutrition and other life-style habitual choices. However, I am most concerned with specific ways to access, diagnose & improve subconscious functions, that precede or influence such lifestyle decisions.

I do hope you had a wonderful Christmas in your part of the world!

I have problems understanding what you mean by "subconsciously". If "consciously" is translated into "awareness", then subconsciously" could mean unawareness. Then it could be seen that physiology can be related to unawareness, because many physiological process are not brought to the attention of the mind. For example you are scarcely aware of the beating of your heart, or of your digestive processes and so on and on.

You are not aware that many of your hormones, enzymes, and neuro-chemicals are manufactured from the food we eat and so on and on. Hence you could be said to be unaware of the many physiological processes are taking place of which you are not aware.
Thus we could be depressed because we are not aware that certain physiological processes are taking place of which you are not aware.

Is that what you mean?

jurplesman wrote:I have problems understanding what you mean by "subconsciously". If "consciously" is translated into "awareness", then subconsciously" could mean unawareness. Then it could be seen that physiology can be related to unawareness, because many physiological process are not brought to the attention of the mind. For example you are scarcely aware of the beating of your heart, or of your digestive processes and so on and on.

You are not aware that many of your hormones, enzymes, and neuro-chemicals are manufactured from the food we eat and so on and on. Hence you could be said to be unaware of the many physiological processes are taking place of which you are not aware.
Thus we could be depressed because we are not aware that certain physiological processes are taking place of which you are not aware.

Is that what you mean?

Thank you for trying to understand and for seeking clarification.

You mentioned partially what I meant - mostly I've referred to beliefs that are subconscious.
No doubt our physiology is affected by beliefs and beliefs are affected by our physiology (ie placebo effect, confidence in healing).

It could be that we get addicted to sugar and then feel like we cannot resist it, and then have the negative side-effects, which become cyclical. Still, I believe, (as you do or else you probably wouldn't bother telling people about nutrition)- that even in the midst of addiction to sugar or other things, there is a part of us that can choose to stop - to take a different path. This ability, I think, is enhanced or debilitated by subconscious beliefs.

I'm primarily concerned with beliefs that have been programmed into our subconscious mind - many of them when we were very young - and that remain to influence our lives, even if they are negative influences. I want to heal at the most effective, influencial level.

Hi Motivated,

You are right, there are two kinds of addiction; 1) simple addiction that can still be stopped by the person and 2) complex addiction which has a much greater hold on the person, which involve factors (biological abnormalities), that renders a person powerless to abstain. See: Riessman F and Caroll D (1996) studies.

You write: "It could be that we get addicted to sugar and then feel like we cannot resist it", but you don't give an explanation of why people become addicted to sugar. It is due to insulin resistance.

Sugar addiction, which may lead to hypoglycemia and then on to diabetes type I, is brought about by over-concumption of sugar from an early age. If you look at the statistics of world sugar consumption (available in the article "Drug Addition is a Nutritional Disorder") you will see a direct correlation between increase in world-wide sugar consumption and diabetes and obesity.

Excess sugar consumption in a person will create toxic peroxides attacking our DNA and organs of the body. The body sets up a defence mechanism in the form of insulin resistance, preventing the absorption and metabolism of glucose which first manifest itself as hypoglycemia (unstable blood sugar levels) and then on to diabetes type I.

If you don't know biochemistry you have to rely on your believes and theories with invented concepts like the "subconscious mind", which has been the subject of psychologists for over a century now. We are now in the 21st century and most people are becoming more educated now and will reject these outdated theories in favour of evidence-based science of nutritional medicine.

The more you get into nutritional biochemistry, the more you will find simple scientific explanations for cognitive phenomena.

Well, let's see:

1. Clinical Hypnotherapy

There's no such thing as "clinical hypnotherapy", at least in terms of any specific method, system, or techniques. I think "clinical hypnotherapy" can be the most effective, or not effective at all, depending on how it is used and who uses it.

2. Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT)

I don't much care for EFT. It isn't based on anything sensible like observation, and is mostly a placebo. Too rigid for me to call it "hypnosis".

3. Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR)

I've heard of EMDR before, wasn't much impressed. It sounds like a strange, NLP-like technique that might work, sometimes. They charge you a whole lot to go to seminars and learn about it, too, even though it's just one stupid technique.

4. Holographic Reprogramming

Like NLP, EMDR and others, this makes the assumption that your unconscious is something you can engineer or program. I don't see that as being the case. Computers don't have interests or desires, don't make choices, and don't have relationships. Humans are more complex, and believe it or not we're living beings; animals.

5. Avatar

I could not find any information on this, period.

6. Psych-k

Apparently Psych-K is some combination of the 'programming' metaphor and a not-well-defined idea of spirituality. It sounds interesting, just not likely to be very practical. They aren't very forthcoming on descriptions of how it works, guess you gotta pay to find out.

7. Body Talk.

This sounds like a bastardized version of Feldenkrais and EFT. I like Feldenkrais classic better, at least they actually pay attention to where muscular tension is actually occurring rather than foaming at the mouth about energy meridians while ignoring what the person is actually doing.

I'm amazed that NLP isn't on that list, although it's basically similar to many of those. I'd say NLP includes a lot more critical thinking and basic sense, even if it isn't all that effective in practice. They didn't mention Cal Banyan's "5-Path" either, although that could probably fit under "clinical hypnotherapy". I kinda like 5-Path, although it only seems to have 3 paths, he charges 10-path prices and gives himself a parade on his about page.

Jurplesman,
Thanks for your info... you do have a good point about nutrition affecting us psychologically.

Aeonios,
Thank you for your detailed response.
Now that you mention it, a while back, my aunt & uncle were telling me about NLP. Why do you think it involves critical thinking & basic sense, but is not that effective in practice?

Of what I have researched about many techniques, including the 5-Path - they seem to be commercialized and cause me to be suspicious about the discrepency between what they claim and the actual practical effectiveness.

It seems that the most direct methods of exploring one's subconscious is by paying attention to our bodies (metaphysics) & by writing down & analyzing dreams. But I, for one, rarely remember my dreams.

Do you (or anyone else) know much about dream-work or other personal subconsious healing techniques that are effective?

Motivated wrote:Aeonios,
Thank you for your detailed response.
Now that you mention it, a while back, my aunt & uncle were telling me about NLP. Why do you think it involves critical thinking & basic sense, but is not that effective in practice?

It's a little difficult to explain. On the one hand they make many intelligent and astute observations in regards to therapy and the mechanics of the mind. They cover a lot about epistemology and metaphor and so on, but the actual "patterns" they use for therapy are very rigid, and they fail to see the underlying metaphorical significance of what they're doing when it does work. NLP lacks a sensible unifying framework by which practitioners can make sense of the individual techniques, which greatly limits its effectiveness.

Motivated wrote:Of what I have researched about many techniques, including the 5-Path - they seem to be commercialized and cause me to be suspicious about the discrepency between what they claim and the actual practical effectiveness.

Well, I can't personally vouch for it at the moment, but Joe liked it a lot and it's similar in process to other therapies like internal family systems, but in theory much less tedious.

Motivated wrote:It seems that the most direct methods of exploring one's subconscious is by paying attention to our bodies (metaphysics) & by writing down & analyzing dreams. But I, for one, rarely remember my dreams.

Do you (or anyone else) know much about dream-work or other personal subconsious healing techniques that are effective?

I take it you're not familiar with Milton Erickson?

Thanks for your response, Aeonios.
I have much more to research still.

Aeonios wrote:I take it you're not familiar with Milton Erickson?

Well, after reading your question here, I looked him up & realized there's an article about him on this website.

He seems very practical, since he grew up on a farm (I did also).
I'm curious about your impression of him.

I consider him one of my biggest influences, and probably the greatest hypnotist who has yet lived. If you wanted to learn the secrets of the unconscious, I couldn't think of anyone better.

EDIT: And yes, he is very practical and well-grounded. It helps considering the.. subjective weirdness of the things he ended up studying.

Thanks, Aeonios.
I'll look into it all more - especially him.
So much info out there - so little time!

Hi,
I've tried several things to reprogram my subconscious. Mainly hypnosis, sedona method and EFT. I also tried stuff like affirmations and afformations (in the form of a question). In the end I decided that EFT was by far the most beneficial for me.

I found the issue with hypnosis is that it didn't seem to clear out the negative stuff first. So that led me to Sedona Method. I liked it and I become extremely relaxed several times using it, in a state I just can't describe and I found it useful for clearing out stuff but it made me too passive.

In Sedona they don't really believe in having beliefs, which sounds strange I know. By that I mean they want to let go until it just 'is' and there isn't any positive or negative beliefs. Their theory makes sense but in practice with myself it made me too passive. I found that instead replacing what I let go with something positive worked for me much better.

That is where EFT come in for me. I still use it regularly. I am interested in Psych-K as i've read about it a little recently, but I have too much to study so I just have to stick to a few things at a time.

-Ben

EFTFreedom wrote:Hi,
I've tried several things to reprogram my subconscious. Mainly hypnosis, sedona method and EFT. I also tried stuff like affirmations and afformations (in the form of a question). In the end I decided that EFT was by far the most beneficial for me.

I found the issue with hypnosis is that it didn't seem to clear out the negative stuff first. So that led me to Sedona Method. I liked it and I become extremely relaxed several times using it, in a state I just can't describe and I found it useful for clearing out stuff but it made me too passive.

In Sedona they don't really believe in having beliefs, which sounds strange I know. By that I mean they want to let go until it just 'is' and there isn't any positive or negative beliefs. Their theory makes sense but in practice with myself it made me too passive. I found that instead replacing what I let go with something positive worked for me much better.

That is where EFT come in for me. I still use it regularly. I am interested in Psych-K as i've read about it a little recently, but I have too much to study so I just have to stick to a few things at a time.

-Ben

Thanks, Ben.
I've heard of EFT - a lot of people on a Spiritual forum were discussing it.
My dad loves Psych-K.
It seems like most of these exercises have to be done with someone else.
I tend to not trust counselors, or people in general, with my subconscious mind (bad experiences).

Can you do EFT solo?

Yeah you can definately do EFT solo, it just may take some practice to learn how to get to the deeper issues. I had an experience with a hypnosist where under trance he gave suggestions to buy everything in his store. I never went back.

Since then I am more careful with who I choose. I coach people and I also apply EFT myself regularly. Once you learn the points and they are automatic then you can really start to get into the process more. Until then it's best to stick to the basic process of "Even though (my issue) I deeply and completely love and accept myself" and tap around the points with a reminder phase of (my issue) whatever it is.

When you get that down then you can get into more advanced applications. I personally don't use it like that myself anymore, but it is the best way for people to first learn it.

The benefit of working with a coach is they can more easily see your issues where in alot of cases you may find it hard to be aware of them yourself. It's the same with me, kind of like my mind doesn't want me to see certain issues.

-Ben