Intrusive thoughts and anger

You deal with it by finding better things to do with your time.

This means if you are missing everything a professor is saying, you have better ways to spend your time. It means you lack goals or direction related to whatever the professor is offering, so you have no vested need to pay attention. And given you have no other pressing goals or things you want to accomplish, your mind drifts to the past.

Hi Collard,

EVERYONE is disturbed, to a greater or lesser degree by an Intrusive Internal Dialogue -- Thoughts and Strings of Thought that come up uninvited. A lot of people would recommend Meditation... but there is So Much Extra Baggage involved with Meditation, isn't there, and why would we want to deal with all that Extra Stuff?

But I had found a Pared Down Easier Method. To explain, well, I had recently retired, and took to studying Mathematics, as I was thinking of using it in a Second Career. Well, I often get tired and fatigued from all the intense study and so I would think it Restful to take short Naps. But, Internal Dialogue and Thinking those Series of Intrusive Thoughts would occupy my mind and prevent me from dropping off to sleep. SO, what I started to do was to Count up to 100, slowly (silently to myself), and once I got to 100, I would begin again, until I would drift off into a light restful and reinvigorating Daytime Sleep. Well, what I found SURPRISING was that my Thoughts were sometimes SO Intrusive that I would find myself NOT COUNTING anymore. Now THAT is a Problem! So it has become just One More Thing that I have started Practicing ( Practice Makes Perfect!) The Idea is to catch and stop the Intrusive Thoughts before they can Stop the Count. It has been slow going, BUT I have noticed Some Improvement.

Of course, you can't be Counting Up to 100, even silently to yourself, when you should be listening to a Lecture. But if you Practice silently Counting and learn to Get Better at Intervening before the Intrusive Thoughts Carry You Away, well, this Same Ability to Recognize Intrusive Thoughts and to Silence them will Help with your General Problem, would it not?

You do not Mention that These Thought Keep you Awake at Night. They must... I am sure it was simply an oversight with you not mentioning it... as you can't mention EVERYTHING, can you. So, anyway, try Counting yourself to Sleep, and practice Stopping the Thoughts that would Interrupt your Counting.

Let me know how it goes. Good Luck.

collard98x wrote:On top of my anger management issues I've been dealing with all of my life, I've been suffering from unwanted and intrusive thoughts. Rather it was a small or major problem in my life, the thoughts would just keep repeating in my head all day and I just over analyze and blow up the situation . I just get these random flashes of anger and rage from these thoughts that would last from a few minutes to an hour. I could sit in through an entire lecture in college and miss everything the professor is saying. Most of these memories end with me revisiting the scene in my head and imagining if I had just hurt or sometimes just killed the person responsible. From what I've researched I know some of this may be connected to my anxiety problems I've had. Do I have some mental problem, f***ed up in the head, or is their a way to deal with this?

I am sure you are able to manage this. Of course it requires some efforts but not so awful as it seems. I believe your success will make you to continue this work. My best wishes

Have you tried repeating positive mantras to reprogram your brain?

JuliusFawcett wrote:Have you tried repeating positive mantras to reprogram your brain?

Doesn't everybody?

Yes, everybody does this, and does everybody really soak their brains in them. What I mean is that some people think that they are positive thinkers, and then they are others who take it to the next level.

Here is a video I made to show you how to soak your mind in positive thoughts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGgnx4f0_zM

JuliusFawcett wrote:Yes, everybody does this, and does everybody really soak their brains in them. What I mean is that some people think that they are positive thinkers, and then they are others who take it to the next level.

Here is a video I made to show you how to soak your mind in positive thoughts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGgnx4f0_zM

Hi Julius,

Oh, dear! thanks so much for the offer, BUT I would far rather READ something then have to sit and watch and listen. Watching Videos like that always seem to take forever, and then, if one really does finally hear something interesting, then as one contemplates it for a moment, well, then GUESS WHAT, you missed the next thing the Guy says, and have to rewind... making 'Forever' all that longer. With reading one can more easily stop and pause and think between paragraphs.

Oh, and about Positive Thoughts... well, wait... Thoughts In General. Is it REALLY such a good thing to have Thoughts LOADED into your brain in such a way that they keep popping up? THAT would seem intrusive! Yes, Granted, that Positive Thoughts are at least BETTER than Negative Thoughts, but would you not agree that SILENCE IS GOLDEN... that a Calm Mind is the Best Mind?

You know, as a matter of fact, I've been dealing with Thoughts lately. I remember telling you about studying Math for a possible Second Career, if I live that long, but, being an old man, I often get sleepy and it is good to take a Nap Break once in a while. But I discovered that my Internal Dialogue keeps chattering and keeps me from dropping off into a light sleep. So I started Counting to keep my mind occupied on something Neutral (and counting is indeed Neutral.... if you can keep counting you do after not too long a wait go into the State where you experience Hypnogogic Imagery (and I get the odd sensation that my Chest and Torso are hollow and resonant)... THAT is the direct precursor to falling into a light sleep. But my Internal Dialogue can be a bit persistent of often makes me Forget my Count. What I have had to do was to focus on interrupting new thoughts.... If I catch them in time, the Count goes on.

But this new Recent Practice -- practicing shutting down new Thoughts -- well, it occurred to me that IT could be a very handy Skill. One could become better and better at Chasing Away distractions and 'Intrusive Thought'.

On the Whole I would find having a CLEAR HEAD better than having one Stuffed with, well, Rose Colored Clichés.

Also, well, Positive is not ALWAYS Positive, don't you think? Studies show that Chronically Optimistic and Positive People are at a significant Disadvantage at Problem Solving and in addressing Crisis Situations compared to pessimistic and cynical people who seem, well, understandably well prepared for such events. People who Expect the Worse generally Plan Ahead for It and are Ready when it Arrives. Happy Optimistic People may FEEL HAPPY, and they may be Pleasant Enough with Others, as long as Nothing Important is Happening, but when Things Turn Sour, it is far better to have a Grump that one can Count On to actually Fix Things, no?

So, yes, I would think that becoming, On Balance, More Positive would make me Less Objective and Less Effective as a Problem solver. Don't you agree? Maybe if you look hard enough to can find one of those Youtube Experts that agrees with me.

Whatever we believe is true for us. If it's working well for you then stick with it, if not, then change.

JuliusFawcett wrote:Whatever we believe is true for us. If it's working well for you then stick with it, if not, then change.

Dear Julius,


Hmmmmm.... you know, well, YES things can work "well", but what if they can work "better".

Examples come to me from my readings about boats and maritime navigation. To start with, Primitive Peoples... and nearly all the Islanders in Oceania even today, think canoes work "well". But once you build a Boat that has Oars instead of Paddles, so that one can row 'backwards', using both left and right arms and the back and legs for strength, well, suddenly the notion that canoes work "well" seems ridiculous by comparison. then there is the invention of decks. Canoes work "well" but it is accepted that one needs to use them on smooth water and calm weather, because they are easily 'swamped' -- one high wave can sink a canoe in a second. But, build a boat with a Deck. If one closes the 'hatch' to the 'below', well, the boat is virtually unsinkable -- you have to poke a hole in it somewhere to sink it.

As you might guess, the List goes on.

I would suppose that some people are doing some very stupidly simplistic things that they THINK are working "WELL".... after all, they are NOT IN THE POSITION to know what REALLY GOOD is.

SO, don't you think you have a duty to point out Significantly Better Ways of Doing Things.

Yes, I understand that one of the great advantages of Your Philosophy is that it allows for a great deal of personal inaction. It is Wonderful to have a Great Excuse for Doing Nothing. My personal Favorite is "If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It" ... which some people intend against Research and Development of better ways of doing things, but I have seen the True Benefit of this Old Saying in practical terms -- if a Factory Floor is humming away, and Production is Meeting Schedule, but if the Line should suddenly Stop then the Schedule would fall through and the Company would be fined an extensive penalty and Lose the Contract, and all the Workers would have to be laid off.... with ALL THAT in mind you see some New Engineer with and Inexperienced Tech approach the Circuit Board Printer Machine, saying that they figured that swapping out the phrasms with damagouts and installing a new system and different software into the machines computer drive would increase production by 4%. The REASONABLE thing is to bellow NO! with all the capacity your lungs can offer. You see, in the Real World, often enough Changing Something only makes it Worse, and THIS must be kept in mind.

So, those are my thoughts for this evening. and again, well, I guess you always write so LITTLE that it is difficult for you NOT to seem as though you are being Overly Simplistic. So let me ask, does you MIND really work like that. All your Thoughts on Any Subject are never much larger than what 30 or 40 words can handle? Maybe you are afraid to show people that you are conflicted and it is so much easier to seem Ideologically Certain in a few words than in many... but that is just my guess.

OK lets address a few points.

As you correctly point out, sometimes not thinking is nice, it's peaceful, and this is possible, if not completely shutting down the chattering internal dialogue, at least to be able to observe it at a distance, and focus on the space between intrusive thoughts and so that space can grow. This is a well trodden path in the practice of meditation.

And thinking is useful, it is expressive, creative and often the solution to challenges in our lives, and it is useful to be careful about the thoughts that we choose, because each of them causes an actual biochemical response in our bodies. Looking at the world through rose tinted glasses is fun. I am sure that you may say that this is not realistic, and here is an example of how it is. A dog has made a mess on the pavement. You can see it, I can see it, it is definitely there. Looking up, there is a rainbow, you can see it, I can see it, it is definitely there. I continue to look at the rainbow, I wallow in it, I celebrate it, I enjoy the biochemical response my body gives up to the joy of it. I could moan about the dog mess on the floor, and I don't, not because I am unrealistic, I just like to focus on the parts of my life that make me feel good.

In a world where so many of the narratives are powered by people who are not happy to be alive, it is useful to create the antidote by conditioning our brains to enjoy the fact that we are happy to be alive. The video I linked to earlier in this thread is one that I not only created, but have used hundreds of times to help reprogram my brain to focus on rainbows and not dogs mess. You may consider this useless, after all, it is possible that I will tread in the dogs mess while looking at rainbows. My answer to that is simple, consider the analogy of driving a racing car. When approaching a walled bend, it is very important to not get fixated by the wall, instead the racing driver's best chances of avoiding a crash is if he looks away from the wall and instead focuses on the path to safety.

I looked at dogs mess and walls for long enough to realise that my biochemical response to these was either to feel angry or feel depressed. Both of these sensations were no good for my relationships or my health. I have had enough of those biochemical responses, so now I choose the escape path, the rainbow. It takes courage to do this, courage that is easy when the alternative was literally killing me. So I decided to change, and I don't look back at the walls or the dog messes, I look forward to enjoying every day. To accept everything as it is, to forgive unconditionally, to be honest to myself in the moment, to condition my mind to love my existence, because anything else is second best (for me). Maybe you just have not had enough at staring at the dog mess?

Hi Julius,

OH! It was YOUR Video! You Produced it! I'm so terribly sorry that I blew it off... I thought it was just 'some' video recommendation.

Well, I watched it long enough to see what you were doing. I had studied hypnosis theory and the theory behind Subliminal Suggestion, and so I had a pretty good idea of what you were doing. Your Video is also about just the right length. I take several naps during the day, but it often takes me about 10 minutes just to settle down, and I can spend that 10 minutes watching your Video. I will let you know if I notice any changes.

Now regarding what you mentioned about meditation... observing and focusing on the space between intrusive thoughts... well, that may be true in a sense, but I have found that Any Active Conscious Re-direction of the Mind almost Always INVITES more intrusive thoughts. One has to NOT Observe. One might be Aware, but it has to be a Passive Awareness. I find that I begin to fall into a light sleep the moment Images start popping up that are totally independent of my will... my thought process. I would say that I am an Observer, but Actively Observing these First Hypnogogic Images is enough to put a stop to them. the Waking Consciousness Cannot Be Any Part of It. Now, yes, I am talking about Naps, but I remember what Ram Das had said about Meditation --- that his Great Aunt used to Meditation every day... she called it her Afternoon Nap.

Oh, did I ever tell you, I have a darling wonderful Cat... she was a feral, but I had been putting food out for the Mother and so the Kitten knew me all her life. She was and is the most Regal little Thing Imaginable. But there is a bit of an irony in regards to her health -- she, unlike any other cat I have ever known, gets gassy and sometimes accidentally poops on the floor. Now, yes, that is considered as unpleasant by most people. But I simply do not allow it to affect my Attitude toward her. I treat those messes as though they had simply spontaneously occurred. the Cat is very proud and would have been Very Embarrassed had I made a big deal about cleaning up these messes.

anyway, my Point here is that a Man must confront his Life Circumstances as they come. There is No Need to be 'Positive' as long as one is Objective and Focused on dealing with the problems as effectively as possible.

Isn't it True that Positive Thinking People experience DISAPPOINTMENT in a More Intense Way -- They Take a Great Fall from their Heightened Expectations... when Life turns Sour or there are Personal Tragedies. Objective People are also affected by adverse circumstances, but since they half-expect Adversity, it seldom leads to the kind of Depression that comes in the wake of Disappointment.

Wow! We are actually Talking!

JuliusFawcett wrote:OK lets address a few points.

As you correctly point out, sometimes not thinking is nice, it's peaceful, and this is possible, if not completely shutting down the chattering internal dialogue, at least to be able to observe it at a distance, and focus on the space between intrusive thoughts and so that space can grow. This is a well trodden path in the practice of meditation.

And thinking is useful, it is expressive, creative and often the solution to challenges in our lives, and it is useful to be careful about the thoughts that we choose, because each of them causes an actual biochemical response in our bodies. Looking at the world through rose tinted glasses is fun. I am sure that you may say that this is not realistic, and here is an example of how it is. A dog has made a mess on the pavement. You can see it, I can see it, it is definitely there. Looking up, there is a rainbow, you can see it, I can see it, it is definitely there. I continue to look at the rainbow, I wallow in it, I celebrate it, I enjoy the biochemical response my body gives up to the joy of it. I could moan about the dog mess on the floor, and I don't, not because I am unrealistic, I just like to focus on the parts of my life that make me feel good.

In a world where so many of the narratives are powered by people who are not happy to be alive, it is useful to create the antidote by conditioning our brains to enjoy the fact that we are happy to be alive. The video I linked to earlier in this thread is one that I not only created, but have used hundreds of times to help reprogram my brain to focus on rainbows and not dogs mess. You may consider this useless, after all, it is possible that I will tread in the dogs mess while looking at rainbows. My answer to that is simple, consider the analogy of driving a racing car. When approaching a walled bend, it is very important to not get fixated by the wall, instead the racing driver's best chances of avoiding a crash is if he looks away from the wall and instead focuses on the path to safety.

I looked at dogs mess and walls for long enough to realise that my biochemical response to these was either to feel angry or feel depressed. Both of these sensations were no good for my relationships or my health. I have had enough of those biochemical responses, so now I choose the escape path, the rainbow. It takes courage to do this, courage that is easy when the alternative was literally killing me. So I decided to change, and I don't look back at the walls or the dog messes, I look forward to enjoying every day. To accept everything as it is, to forgive unconditionally, to be honest to myself in the moment, to condition my mind to love my existence, because anything else is second best (for me). Maybe you just have not had enough at staring at the dog mess?

Leo said "Isn't it True that Positive Thinking People experience DISAPPOINTMENT in a More Intense Way -- They Take a Great Fall from their Heightened Expectations... when Life turns Sour or there are Personal Tragedies. Objective People are also affected by adverse circumstances, but since they half-expect Adversity, it seldom leads to the kind of Depression that comes in the wake of Disappointment."

Haha - A true positive thinker can never be disappointed, because...... that would not be thinking positively.

JuliusFawcett wrote:Leo said "Isn't it True that Positive Thinking People experience DISAPPOINTMENT in a More Intense Way -- They Take a Great Fall from their Heightened Expectations... when Life turns Sour or there are Personal Tragedies. Objective People are also affected by adverse circumstances, but since they half-expect Adversity, it seldom leads to the kind of Depression that comes in the wake of Disappointment."

Haha - A true positive thinker can never be disappointed, because...... that would not be thinking positively.

This "Positive Thinking" seems to be paralleling what the Religionists call Faith... and it is NOT a Good Thing, well, not entirely. FAITH, and apparently Positive Thinking have their Dark Sides. And that Dark Side can be discerned by understanding how Faith came to be about in the first place. What I suppose is that People Expected Miracles from Religion, and when the Promised Miracles failed to occur, and the People grumbled loudly and in great numbers, well, the Priests and the Missionaries had to do something in their defense, SO they blamed the People --- the People Didn't Believe... well, they didn't Believe hard ENOUGH. All of this so that the People would not get as far in their Minds as to actually consider the possibility of Blaming the Failure on the Content of the Doctrines and Beliefs themselves.


Now, here You Are saying the Same Thing in Defense of Positive Thinking, that while Adhering to the Doctrines of Positive Thinking if people so Screw Up Their Lives, in regards to Practical Serious Matters, and their lives becomeTotal Ruins -- Homeless with no change of clothes, starving and beat up and set on fire by young punks every night... you know, that type of thing. Well, I said that this would indeed Disappoint Most Disciples of Positive Thinking, but Julius chimed in with the 'A Positive Believer with True Faith' would still have a silly grin on his face no matter what.

Really, Julius? You are going to use that Ancient Old Dodge.... affectively Blaming your Clients if they should ever commit the heresy of wondering whether Positive Thinking may not be all that Positive after they have given it a far try. vedey ha..

A positive thinker will never tell you that negative thinkers have a dark side, or they are not really positive thinkers.

Positive thinking is not a faith, it's a choice. It's the choice we make when we have had enough of being fearful, miserable, angry, jealous, irritable, critical, resentful, bitter and sad.

I get it, you don't choose to be a 100% positive thinker. So what? It's your life, I am not the thought police.