My anger: It's ONLY always about revenge fantasies

Dear Aldinosaur,

If a person had to have an Anger Problem, your Problem would be the Kind to Have! In Society and at Work you are a Perfect Model Citizen! Some Angry People would have to work on their Problem for Decades to get to where you are Now. Yeah, so you are a little Hard on the Furniture when you get Home… a lot of people could learn to live with That.

But, Yes, your Head gets all wrapped up in it and there is No Stopping It. You torment yourself with all of the “I should Have Said This’s and Done That’s”.

Oh! You are Exactly the Right Person to Ask! I want to write a short Paper on the “Leaky Bucket” Analogy, you know, that Angry Thoughts Fill Up Our Head, BUT that our Head is like a Leaky Bucket and so, given time, all that Anger just sort of Leaks Out and Away. But exactly How Much Time? With me, if something Pushes My Buttons, well, I might lose a bit of sleep on the First Night, and I might still have it on my mind the Second Day, but not much, or not enough to lose any sleep over. For you, how long does a Head Full of Anger last?

Now, I said when something ‘Pushes my Buttons’ … well, usually my Head really doesn’t get much Involved unless I do – I have to SAY SOMETHING about the Situation to Someone, or DO something in response. But if I just IGNORE a problem until it goes away, then typically it doesn’t latch onto me… I forget all about it in no time at all.

Oh, it is SO good that you mentioned that your Therapist was able to Identify the Exact Cause and Source of your Problem, as it will just Reinforce with all of our Readers here that All of That Knowing does absolutely no good at all. Knowing Source and Cause doesn’t Fix Anything, which is one of the Premises of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, that is, to not Waste Time talking about “Toilet Training” when you can simply get to Work on the Problem Itself.

It’s good that you do not have a ‘Behavioral Problem’, or not One that we can see, BUT you are Allowing These Ideas to Take Root and that is a kind of ‘Behavior’ in itself. You really have to take some control over the ‘Behavior’ of your Mind, and, YES, I acknowledge that that is Very Difficult to do. But that is what you are Here For… a Good Challenge! I had to take some Control over my Own Mind… for, you see, when I retired I decided to take up the Study of Math in preparation for a 2nd Career, should I live that long, but I would get sleepy during the day and would decide I needed to take short little Naps once in a while. But my Head would be full of Thoughts and that would keep me from just Nodding Off in a Time Conserving Efficient Manner. So I figured out a way to Fix It – that I would Count Myself to Sleep. I would Silently Count up to One Hundred and then Start Over Again. The Idea was that I could not BOTH think of Head Spinning Thoughts and silently Count at the Same Time. Well, to some degree one can Think and Count at the Same Time, but if the Counting is Dominant than it soon subdues the Thinking. Well, It Really Wasn’t That Easy! It turns out that A Lot of The Time the Spinning Thoughts would Turn Off the Counting! So, when I would notice that I was ‘Off Program’, I would just go back to the Count. Usually I am asleep before I get to 300. SO, anyway, I would suppose that unless you have a Better Idea, YOU should learn to start Counting, and Not Just when you want to fall asleep. You need to Recognize the Moments when you Latch Onto one of your Obsessive Fixations, and begin the Count then. Don’t let the Fixation take Hold. Yes, it is extremely difficult, and the Fixation WILL take over just as my Spinning Thoughts often do, but just go back to the Count when you realize that you strayed Off.

Oh, is Adrenaline Involved? Aldinosaur, you have read a lot of my Stuff, and so you know I really think Adrenaline is involved in most cases of Hostile Angry Behavior. But you are so Well Behaved! But maybe you just have Great Control! (I think you were raised Really Well.) But, tell me, do you feel “Wired”… “Jacked Up” … that kind of thing, when you get ‘Insulted’ or whatever? It may be that Adrenaline is helping to Fix You In Your Fixations. Well, the Long Story Short on Adrenaline is to recognize the First Symptom of a Rush and then shut it off Immediately. The First Symptom will be Your Teeth Clenching. Just Unclench Your Teeth, and do it within less than 2 seconds! THAT will shut off the Adrenaline Rush before it gets Too Big and Hairy.

And I wonder if you have any Pets or Hobbies. I have my Cats and my Music and Math, that is, I have Places for my Head to go when I get Home after a Hard Day’s Work in the Jungle. What do you have? It may be that Anger is your Only Hobby… and instead of pet Cats you keep a Head Full of Angry Gremlins!

Well, that should be enough for right now. Let me know if any of it seems applicable to your situation.

aldinosaur wrote:I really don't know what's bugging me deep down. The revenge fantasies occur everyday and it's making me hate life.

Self-handicapping.

What is probably bugging you is the extent to which you are wasting your life away thinking about revenge. It is a self-handicapping technique to avoid facing real issues in life. It is probably not on the surface, but deep down you can feel it...you can feel how you are not accomplishing anything productive in life. This compounds the issue, placing even more of a burden on your already weakened mind.

While you are wasting hour after hour, day after day, many of these people that you are ruminating about are thinking about their next jog, that project at work, their friends and their community. They are not thinking of you at all, they are living life while you are wasting your precious time fantasizing.

This brings up the question, why? Don't you have better things to do with your time? The answer is a resounding yes, but then a follow up question is why would you waste time ruminating when it is obvious your time could be used more productively? The answer is fear of failure, fear of rejection, fear in general.

When you start to think about a tough goal like climbing to the top of mountain or some goal that might put you at risk of failure, you self-handicap. Mentally you switch the focus of your thoughts. You begin to ruminate about something that will not result in any actual action. You are angry, but yet safe in your thoughts. It gives you a false sense of action, of a problem you need to resolve and that you are working on, when the reality is you are simply avoiding real action, working towards a goal where you might fail.

Note: I'm not saying you have not or are not achieving some goals in life. I'm saying deep down, the rumination is a way you use to self-handicap.

Leo Volont wrote:
Oh! You are Exactly the Right Person to Ask! I want to write a short Paper on the “Leaky Bucket” Analogy, you know, that Angry Thoughts Fill Up Our Head, BUT that our Head is like a Leaky Bucket and so, given time, all that Anger just sort of Leaks Out and Away. But exactly How Much Time? With me, if something Pushes My Buttons, well, I might lose a bit of sleep on the First Night, and I might still have it on my mind the Second Day, but not much, or not enough to lose any sleep over. For you, how long does a Head Full of Anger last?

Thank you Leo for the thoughtful reply.

Well let's see here... It lasts like forever?! I guess so. I've been struggling with this for so long. That said, I guess me looking for a "cure" was my folly as I ignored all anger management techniques.

Leo Volont wrote:Oh, it is SO good that you mentioned that your Therapist was able to Identify the Exact Cause and Source of your Problem, as it will just Reinforce with all of our Readers here that All of That Knowing does absolutely no good at all. Knowing Source and Cause doesn’t Fix Anything, which is one of the Premises of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, that is, to not Waste Time talking about “Toilet Training” when you can simply get to Work on the Problem Itself.

Yes indeed. The insight was helpful, but I still couldn't take the responsibility of wanting to deal with the pain and anger.

I hate the notion of forgiving, for it makes me feel like I have to accept injustice and bs.

It’s good that you do not have a ‘Behavioral Problem’, or not One that we can see, BUT you are Allowing These Ideas to Take Root and that is a kind of ‘Behavior’ in itself. You really have to take some control over the ‘Behavior’ of your Mind, and, YES, I acknowledge that that is Very Difficult to do. But that is what you are Here For… a Good Challenge! I had to take some Control over my Own Mind… for, you see, when I retired I decided to take up the Study of Math in preparation for a 2nd Career, should I live that long, but I would get sleepy during the day and would decide I needed to take short little Naps once in a while. But my Head would be full of Thoughts and that would keep me from just Nodding Off in a Time Conserving Efficient Manner. So I figured out a way to Fix It – that I would Count Myself to Sleep. I would Silently Count up to One Hundred and then Start Over Again. The Idea was that I could not BOTH think of Head Spinning Thoughts and silently Count at the Same Time. Well, to some degree one can Think and Count at the Same Time, but if the Counting is Dominant than it soon subdues the Thinking. Well, It Really Wasn’t That Easy! It turns out that A Lot of The Time the Spinning Thoughts would Turn Off the Counting! So, when I would notice that I was ‘Off Program’, I would just go back to the Count. Usually I am asleep before I get to 300. SO, anyway, I would suppose that unless you have a Better Idea, YOU should learn to start Counting, and Not Just when you want to fall asleep. You need to Recognize the Moments when you Latch Onto one of your Obsessive Fixations, and begin the Count then. Don’t let the Fixation take Hold. Yes, it is extremely difficult, and the Fixation WILL take over just as my Spinning Thoughts often do, but just go back to the Count when you realize that you strayed Off.

I get this. So, basically try to override the angry thoughts/revenge fantasies with something else?

I like how you put it simply. To be frank, I got tired of all the cliched solutions I read online from bloggers, life coaches, hippies and whatever. If I have to be told to meditate one more time..... god.

Can I ask though, will this get easier? Can my brain actually be trained to start thinking of happier sh** and eventually hit the point where I forget about my wrongdoers, or at least, not feel so much anger when the angry thought seeps in?

Oh, is Adrenaline Involved? Aldinosaur, you have read a lot of my Stuff, and so you know I really think Adrenaline is involved in most cases of Hostile Angry Behavior. But you are so Well Behaved! But maybe you just have Great Control! (I think you were raised Really Well.) But, tell me, do you feel “Wired”… “Jacked Up” … that kind of thing, when you get ‘Insulted’ or whatever? It may be that Adrenaline is helping to Fix You In Your Fixations. Well, the Long Story Short on Adrenaline is to recognize the First Symptom of a Rush and then shut it off Immediately. The First Symptom will be Your Teeth Clenching. Just Unclench Your Teeth, and do it within less than 2 seconds! THAT will shut off the Adrenaline Rush before it gets Too Big and Hairy.

I guess it is? If you mean by adrenaline rush feeling absolutely pissed off and shitty, then yeah.

When I feel angry, I just... feel so f***ing pissed off. I get up from my computer, pace around the room and end up breaking something. Of course by then, I feel cooler, but it ain't healthy.

2 seconds huh? Just 2 seconds?

And I wonder if you have any Pets or Hobbies. I have my Cats and my Music and Math, that is, I have Places for my Head to go when I get Home after a Hard Day’s Work in the Jungle. What do you have? It may be that Anger is your Only Hobby… and instead of pet Cats you keep a Head Full of Angry Gremlins!

Sigh... I love cats. I always wanted one because I absolutely feel that it can calm me down and make me happy in my room. BUT, my mom is afraid of cats.

I have to say honestly, I've a little resentment towards her. Since my dad died, I feel a compelling need to stay here with her. I try to be a good son, obey her and sh** but all I get is nagged at. I've been angry so long I just f***ing hate it here and wish I could move to somewhere else for a bit.

Thanks Leo.

Self-handicapping.

What is probably bugging you is the extent to which you are wasting your life away thinking about revenge. It is a self-handicapping technique to avoid facing real issues in life. It is probably not on the surface, but deep down you can feel it...you can feel how you are not accomplishing anything productive in life. This compounds the issue, placing even more of a burden on your already weakened mind.

Hey Richard,

Well okay. Maybe, yes. I'd admit that anger has been a safe zone. I tell myself, at least, when I am angry, the world makes sense. Justice actually exist. The idea of forgiveness and all that eludes me because... knowing my wrongdoers get away with it and not suffer pisses me off.

While you are wasting hour after hour, day after day, many of these people that you are ruminating about are thinking about their next jog, that project at work, their friends and their community. They are not thinking of you at all, they are living life while you are wasting your precious time fantasizing.

This brings up the question, why? Don't you have better things to do with your time? The answer is a resounding yes, but then a follow up question is why would you waste time ruminating when it is obvious your time could be used more productively? The answer is fear of failure, fear of rejection, fear in general.

When you start to think about a tough goal like climbing to the top of mountain or some goal that might put you at risk of failure, you self-handicap. Mentally you switch the focus of your thoughts. You begin to ruminate about something that will not result in any actual action. You are angry, but yet safe in your thoughts. It gives you a false sense of action, of a problem you need to resolve and that you are working on, when the reality is you are simply avoiding real action, working towards a goal where you might fail.

Note: I'm not saying you have not or are not achieving some goals in life. I'm saying deep down, the rumination is a way you use to self-handicap.

Well yeah that's probably all true.

But it feels so chicken and egg.

I feel like I can't concentrate on making my business better cause I am too angry.

I feel like I can't stop being angry cause everything is not going well.

How do you personally propose to stop this self-handicap then?

aldinosaur wrote:
But it feels so chicken and egg.

I feel like I can't concentrate on making my business better cause I am too angry.

I feel like I can't stop being angry cause everything is not going well.

How do you personally propose to stop this self-handicap then?

Start by stopping with the "I feel" subjective and instead use very specific, objective, measurable goals. Set your business goals, set your performance targets and then track your time. Establish your baseline, e.g. X sales in Y time, and then focus on improving your business.

You are trying to blame others for everything not going well, but ultimately you are responsible for the success of your business. You might feel otherwise, but objectively you can establish how your personal performance impacts the bottom line. Sure, short term issues can occur like a person gives you a bad review, but when you have 1,000 reviews the extent of your performance cannot be attributed to others. It can be attributed to your anger, being angry anytime you feel slighted, but the objective measures like reviews, revenues, etc. will speak volumes about your performance.

aldinosaur wrote:

Leo Volont wrote:
Oh! You are Exactly the Right Person to Ask! I want to write a short Paper on the “Leaky Bucket” Analogy, you know, that Angry Thoughts Fill Up Our Head, BUT that our Head is like a Leaky Bucket and so, given time, all that Anger just sort of Leaks Out and Away. But exactly How Much Time? With me, if something Pushes My Buttons, well, I might lose a bit of sleep on the First Night, and I might still have it on my mind the Second Day, but not much, or not enough to lose any sleep over. For you, how long does a Head Full of Anger last?

Thank you Leo for the thoughtful reply.

Well let's see here... It lasts like forever?! I guess so. I've been struggling with this for so long. That said, I guess me looking for a "cure" was my folly as I ignored all anger management techniques.

No No No! I mean Per Incident! You DO go from One Thing to Another, Don't You? New Schemes of Hatred and Vengence displace the Old One's. I am sure it is a lot like Sexual Fantasy... that you would get bored with the Same Old Thing -- French Maids were cute for a while but maybe a Cheerleader would Liven things Up, so to speak.

Anyway, Unwanted Obsessive Thoughts, in reference to particular Incidents, generally Wind Down after awhile. How long is it for you? and think about it this time!

aldinosaur wrote:
.... but I still couldn't take the responsibility of wanting to deal with the pain and anger.

I hate the notion of forgiving, for it makes me feel like I have to accept injustice and bs.

what kind of sissy therapist told you that you have to 'forgive'? Real Men just learn how to ignore the people they don't like.

No No No! I mean Per Incident! You DO go from One Thing to Another, Don't You? New Schemes of Hatred and Vengence displace the Old One's. I am sure it is a lot like Sexual Fantasy... that you would get bored with the Same Old Thing -- French Maids were cute for a while but maybe a Cheerleader would Liven things Up, so to speak.

Anyway, Unwanted Obsessive Thoughts, in reference to particular Incidents, generally Wind Down after awhile. How long is it for you? and think about it this time!

[/quote]

They come and go.

I can get riled up over an incident that happened 10 years ago, like a "relapse."

I'd say depending on the situation.

On average...2-3 months.

I know I mentioned not having been in a fight before, and I certainly don't intend to. The closest I ever got to a fight was literally being punched. I didn't get to hit back.

And... I am not angry over this incident. Why? Because he apologized in the end. Simple as that. He showed me that human side of him.

what kind of sissy therapist told you that you have to 'forgive'? Real Men just learn how to ignore the people they don't like.

Love how you put it. Err, you weren't being sarcastic right?

Please tell me more... I am sick of cliched solutions.

Forgive.

Meditate.

Breathe.

Go for a walk.

Journaling

therapy.

Whatever

aldinosaur wrote:

Can I ask though, will this get easier? Can my brain actually be trained to start thinking of happier sh** and eventually hit the point where I forget about my wrongdoers, or at least, not feel so much anger when the angry thought seeps in?

First, NO MORE SWEARING. Don't SAY cuss words. Don't even THINK them. The Language that Runs through our Mind is TOO instrumental in developing our Modes and the Train of Our Thoughts. Also, it is much Classier to never swear.

And, YES, to your question. Practice makes Perfect. People can Totally Transform Themselves. For instance, in England about a hundred years ago, incomes were going up for the lower classes, but there was still no Upward Social Mobility -- the Upper Classes circled their wagons and wouldn't allow anyone New into their closed Circles. But Thousands of People took to re-educating themselves on All of Their Behavior and all of their Thinking, so that they could PASS for Upper Class. One Lady I heard of who was from New Castle, a daughter of a Coal Miner, was just such a person who transformed herself and faked it into High Society, but after 20 years, the Truth Came Out and she was accused of being a Phony and a Counterfeit right to her face. Well, she shrugged and said, "Oh, that. I HAVEN'T BEEN THAT PERSON FOR YEARS", Just like that Lady, you DON'T have to keep being the Same You. You can Re-Learn yourself.

For instance, I have a Twin Brother. and we are NOT at all a like. I remade myself and he stayed what he was when he was 13!

Oh, in Hollywood's hey day, actors and actresses were of the same stamp -- they Re-created themselves -- developed New and Better Personas. Of course, it was all at risk if they would get too drunk.... Sinatra would talk like a Street Punk from Hoboken if he drank one too many.

Just decide Who you want to be and become that Person. people who tell you to just be 'yourself'... well, that's not very ambitious, is it? Almost Everybody can Do Better than the Person they are already. It just takes Focus and Practice and the Will to Succeed.

aldinosaur wrote:

Leo Volont wrote:Unwanted Obsessive Thoughts, in reference to particular Incidents, generally Wind Down after awhile. How long is it for you? and think about it this time!

On average...2-3 months.

You DO have a BIG Problem. Most People Move On in just a few days. The Big Problem with Most Angry People is that they continually Create New Incidents. so if they can learn to avoid continually creating New Problems, they eventually experience what it is like to be SMOOTH SAILING. but if Every Little Thing FOR YOU Lasts 2 or 3 Months! HOW can you Stay Focused on the Same Negativity So Long!? You must actually be Trying your Hardest to Be Screwed Up... oh, wait, that wasn't very kind. But, I have to say now that I Can't Believe You. NOW I think you are just Telling Us Stories and Playing Us Along. You Like the Attention of Being this Dark Vengeful Obsessive Fanatic, but you neglected to do your Homework and you have Over-acted the Part.

We would need to go in a New Direction Now. Your REAL Problem is that you are a Big Drama Queen. Only Not in Public. All of Your Performances are for your own Self Delight. Apparently you are Getting Off on this Hateful Bad Boy Self Image of Yourself. Oh, But NOW you are Reaching Out for Recognition. You KNOW you can't Brag About It, and so you Pretend to be asking for Help, but you are Really just Showing Off. You are Proud of It!

So, No, as it stands, I don't think I can help you. Frankly, I think you are just 'playing' me for the attention.

Leo Volont wrote:
You DO have a BIG Problem. Most People Move On in just a few days. The Big Problem with Most Angry People is that they continually Create New Incidents. so if they can learn to avoid continually creating New Problems, they eventually experience what it is like to be SMOOTH SAILING. but if Every Little Thing FOR YOU Lasts 2 or 3 Months! HOW can you Stay Focused on the Same Negativity So Long!? You must actually be Trying your Hardest to Be Screwed Up... oh, wait, that wasn't very kind. But, I have to say now that I Can't Believe You. NOW I think you are just Telling Us Stories and Playing Us Along. You Like the Attention of Being this Dark Vengeful Obsessive Fanatic, but you neglected to do your Homework and you have Over-acted the Part.

We would need to go in a New Direction Now. Your REAL Problem is that you are a Big Drama Queen. Only Not in Public. All of Your Performances are for your own Self Delight. Apparently you are Getting Off on this Hateful Bad Boy Self Image of Yourself. Oh, But NOW you are Reaching Out for Recognition. You KNOW you can't Brag About It, and so you Pretend to be asking for Help, but you are Really just Showing Off. You are Proud of It!

So, No, as it stands, I don't think I can help you. Frankly, I think you are just 'playing' me for the attention.

No I am not. It's obviously a big problem that's why I am.

I am a bit shocked to how you can derive such an accusation.

I am not "playing" you nor other people here. Rest assured. You're just going to have to believe me.

If you don't want to... then I can't stop you. You can go find other players if you want.

aldinosaur wrote:
No I am not. It's obviously a big problem that's why I am.

I am a bit shocked to how you can derive such an accusation.

I am not "playing" you nor other people here. Rest assured. You're just going to have to believe me.

If you don't want to... then I can't stop you. You can go find other players if you want.

But your Problem does not Describe like any Real Problem... not in Anger Management anyway. no one is Angry for 3 months over any single incident, except for maybe somebody killing their Mother. So you might be Sick and Twisted, but it Isn't with Anger. As you yourself said, in Public you are perfectly polite and well behaved. Angry People usually just get Angry, don't you think? and Then you told me that with the Therapist you Refused to Take Responsibility for your Anger... Now, what am I supposed to do with that!? its an invitation for me to just get jerked around by you while you are laughing about it, or whatever. So, well, you can start plotting your Revenge on Me... there is certainly no harm in it... all you do is Plot, you Never get around to Doing Anything....not even getting your own Place -- 31 years old and you live in your Mother's basement! How can I be expected to Help Anybody Like That?

Leo Volont wrote:

aldinosaur wrote:
No I am not. It's obviously a big problem that's why I am.

I am a bit shocked to how you can derive such an accusation.

I am not "playing" you nor other people here. Rest assured. You're just going to have to believe me.

If you don't want to... then I can't stop you. You can go find other players if you want.

But your Problem does not Describe like any Real Problem... not in Anger Management anyway. no one is Angry for 3 months over any single incident, except for maybe somebody killing their Mother. So you might be Sick and Twisted, but it Isn't with Anger. As you yourself said, in Public you are perfectly polite and well behaved. Angry People usually just get Angry, don't you think? and Then you told me that with the Therapist you Refused to Take Responsibility for your Anger... Now, what am I supposed to do with that!? its an invitation for me to just get jerked around by you while you are laughing about it, or whatever. So, well, you can start plotting your Revenge on Me... there is certainly no harm in it... all you do is Plot, you Never get around to Doing Anything....not even getting your own Place -- 31 years old and you live in your Mother's basement! How can I be expected to Help Anybody Like That?

No that's all derived from your own sick mind.

It's obvious from your answers, and the way you bully others that you're a semi-psychopath.

You're not the first troll on the internet Leo, so learn to get over yourself.

I will not be acknowledging you anymore.