Hi everyone . I come from China . I will share my story

Candid wrote:

bron wrote:Can you talk about it in more detail

Just because something has never been attempted doesn't mean it can't be done.

So, is it possible to be free from all conditioning?
I say no. The classic conditioned response is salivation. It's not even desirable to get rid of physiological responses such as ducking your head and closing your eyes if a projectile is headed your way. But psychological conditioning that's having a negative effect on someone's life is a different matter. In particular I would like to know whether the conditioned response to trauma can be changed, and how.

But from the behavioral psychologist's experiments, except for some innate genetic causes of behavior that cannot be changed, everything else seems to be no problem.

davidbanner99@ wrote:Last night I was watching Columbo - How To Dial A Murder. Featured was a successful psychologist with two dogs and a thriving business. He gave lectures on how words condition and control people from the cradle so the episode was based on this character. Watching it, I thought the psychologist was applying his field very successfully. I mean the psychlogy I research is rewarding but not of interest to the general public. Anyway, the focus on words gave the story a great angle. I agree, words do constrain people. It's easy to analyse a subject with bias imposed by culture.

Yes, words to condition people, similar to priming.

My question, is all conditioning bad? Why would you ever want to be free from all conditioning? Why did Jiddu see it as such a problem? In my opinion, it is an unhealthy philosophy.

I get that it is a popular philosophy that has been discussed for thousands of years. From Buddha to Zeno it has been delivered in different forms. In some sense, it is a philosophy that "conditions" a person to believe that to not be free of conditioning is a problem.

No one is free from conditioning, so it is easy to say that it is a problem. It is impossible to say that being free from conditioning is a superior or healthier way to live, because it has never been achieved and never will be achieved. As Candid pointed out, we are born with innate responses, e.g. salivation.

If I say elephant, it is impossible not to think of an elephant. Try it. You can't do it.

So I argue either Jiddu did not literally mean all conditioning, or that he was wrong. I'm leaning towards Jiddu having a different concept of what it meant to be conditioned.

Candid wrote:

bron wrote:I say no. The classic conditioned response is salivation. It's not even desirable to get rid of physiological responses such as ducking your head and closing your eyes if a projectile is headed your way. But psychological conditioning that's having a negative effect on someone's life is a different matter. In particular I would like to know whether the conditioned response to trauma can be changed, and how.

I think conditioned responses, including to trauma, can be changed. I think cognitive behavioral therapy is one common way it is addressed.

I just think philosophies that say to rid oneself of all desires, all conditions in order to achieve a "higher level" or to "become enlightened" is not necessarily healthy. IMO it is a philosophy based on a false, unhealthy premise.

bron wrote: I would choose to get up early in the morning , earlier than the time for work. You can use this time for short exercise and study, and set aside 10 minutes before going to bed to meditate at night before going to bed. Then fall asleep.

I would use that time to change your working conditions. Study for a promotion or learn a new skill.

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:

bron wrote: I would choose to get up early in the morning , earlier than the time for work. You can use this time for short exercise and study, and set aside 10 minutes before going to bed to meditate at night before going to bed. Then fall asleep.

I would use that time to change your working conditions. Study for a promotion or learn a new skill.

Can also be another option

bron wrote: Can also be another option

Yes.

But what option changes the 6 am to 9 pm work all the time?

What option helps you change the work?

Studying psychology to think about karaoke and drying hair does not get you more time in life to do what you want.

Meditation helps stress levels, but it does not enlighten someone. Its a form of prayer, and prayer does not enlighten someone, and the way we live our lives and what kind of God we serve.