Should we believe in God?

Hamming wrote:I feel like it is wasting my life to live without sins, when there is good chance that God does not exist.

You make me laugh, Hamming. As you've pointed out, most of the rules are just good common sense. If you believe in God, believe in a god that loves you and wants the best for you -- not the punitive god of the Old Testament. If your 'sins' do no harm to anyone, there's no problem. But make sure you include yourself in that 'anyone'. Only you can decide what's right for you.

Some people say you are dumb when thinking God exists.

I think that's why the UF rules say we're not to discuss religion or politics here: because there's no right or wrong answer, just what you decide for yourself.

And really I am having shame to say to them that I believe that God exists...

Why are you telling people this? If you want to talk about God, why not join a church?

But make sure you include yourself in that 'anyone'.

that make my life also missarable. For example drinking alcohol is a sin from what I remember from childhood. Or for adults it is not a sin maybe, I am not sure.

I cannot imagine life without alcohol. If alcohol is a sin because it is bad for health, then most of the food in supermarket is a sin because they are bad for your health

Plus I feel preassure from some people to drink, so maybe using pressure is more a sin than drinking.
Plus since I have psychological issues, I cannot relax with lot of people, so alcohol is a tool for relaxation. I myself would like to drink less alcohol, to increase my chances of living longer. Currently I drink much less than when I was teenager, student, because I do not have to meet people who create me as much stress.

I think that's why the UF rules say we're not to discuss religion or politics here: because there's no right or wrong answer, just what you decide for yourself.

Hmm, that is your oppinion probably. But if I would ask a preacher probably he would not say this. If there is no right or wrong answer, I would then give a chance 95 % that there is no god, and for 5 % - that there is, only we do not have technology to prove it yet. Like some time ago people believed the earth is flat, and if you think earth is round, you are dumb. But turned out that it was right.
But I am afraid to be wrong. What if he exists and I will be forewer burning in hell. I do not even understand how you can forewer burn.

I have searched this forum before posting and I saw there were topics about God, so did not think it is forbidden.

Why are you telling people this? If you want to talk about God, why not join a church?

Because I am afraid that if God does not exist, those church people brainwash me even more, and I might believe in not existing thing.
I want to hear what other people say. I have discussed with those religious people, their arguments are weird, they find ways to justice why something is not logical. For excample, if God loves us, why he does not solve problems on earth, like wars? And they say something like God gave the man freedom to do what he wants or something like that. Oh come on.
At the same time God tells that killing people is bad. And now freedom. Damn. My mind does not understand them.

And the problem is - if I want to just go and tell my sins in church, to be secure that I am not as bad, but I do not really believe I am bad for stealing computer software for exaplme, and I do not delete my illegal software, then I feel weird, and not sure if God can forgive me my sins.
And as I remember from childhood, you have to say you promise to improve. How can I promise to improve if I know that I will not improve

Hamming, if you're fretting over God and Sin, you might at least get your hands on a Bible and get your facts straight. How can boozing be a sin when JC Himself turned water into wine?

And if you find God so improbable (95% improbable), why are you worrying about your sins, hmm?

I am afraid to be wrong. What if he exists and I will be forewer burning in hell.

You and millions of others, Hamming. They're all either feeling guilty or attending church regularly as a kind of insurance policy.

I do not even understand how you can forewer burn.

That doesn't sound like it comes from a God of Love, does it?

I am afraid that if God does not exist, those church people brainwash me even more, and I might believe in not existing thing.

Hamming, you're 30 now -- old enough to have formed your own beliefs. When a salesman knocks at your door, do you end up buying things you don't want?. You can think for yourself, surely.

If it's any comfort to you, you're going to have plenty of company wherever you go after you die.

Where do you think you'll go after you die? Do you think everything will just stop for you -- or that your soul will go marching on?

Nice arguments hamming, it looks like what you need is a non judgemental unbiased pen pal to chat and explorer the unknown when it comes to god. I would love to give you tips and would love your two cents in my beliefs just because you sound like a straight forwardly nice person. I'll chat with you in private, not in open in front of everyone because too many overly educated people like to pass judgement and label me something I'm not.

What people don't understand is that nowadays, having an education (especially ivy leaguers) think of themselves as superiors, and asking them for advice will make them laugh at you, they won't cheer you up and laugh with you.

people who think of themselves as overly educated are worst off in society because their ego consumes them.

try asking a poor uneducated person how to be happy in the moment, he'll know how to enjoy that day. he's simplicity will make sense compared to a scholar who'll give you a complex answer.

One advice i can give you is, live today as much as you can, try not to dwell too much on the past, and don't plan too far in the future, the future is hectic as is.

Money-wise: Work today, don't spend all your money you made today, save whatever is left you didn't spend and forget about it. repeat this step everyday.

money saving should be like an intoxicant, enjoy it. don't spend what you make weekly, only daily.

My best advice on this is to look for the truth and listen to your heart, instinct and deep feelings. Then answers will come and you will do the right choice.

The denials will be huge, though in this subject are the strongest forces lay to resist the truth.
I would not have replied to this subject if you did not made this topic title be such general question for us all.

Should WE believe in god.

Look at the fears comming with all related god stuff, what mitivates people to create such fanatsy to actually believe in. God represents all good, all love. God represents an afterlife. God represents a creation of everything. This is what gives answers to the most questioned things among us human beings, and we are less affraid for having no answer to creation and afterlife(death) then that we are for eachother, all bad in the world.
There is so much bad, and do realise that one act of bad does not stand to any simular act of love. Bad acts stand way higher into the concerns and effect then a simular act of love.

Everyone does hundreds of acts all the time good, but just one act of bad is always the most noticed. Now look arround you, look in this world. How come so much bad keeps being done and ongoing, it is surreal and unaware it frightens everyone, we dont understand eachother anymore, we dont know eachother anymore, we obey and have no control over it. No one understands why other same beings can do this, let this happen, kill people over pieces of paper which have no feelings like we do, who are ths people, do they not feel what all self feel, it is unbvelievable not to understand in any way. If we do not find any answer why and how this can be happening (look at my topic where im trying to explain this), and we keep seeing this bad that is a true reality, we are very weak to go and start believe in something else, something we cannot know because it doesnt excist, we have to believe in good, we really need this good, we create the fantasy to believe in that resembles all good, god and all that comes with it.

It is only logic that people will create this and start believing in this when there is no control and answer to this bad we keep being confronted with, it is a refuge for those who need to find others just like themselves, having this idealogy and intent of good, it would be unwise to take this away, many people will see no exit anymore. If there was no such thing as believing into something, many would just realise their depression, they would suffer from seeing all this bad. Now for each human individually speaken, it is a good thing they are relieved of experiencing any suffer from this bad and find santuary in belief (though unaware they are depressed).

But in general, like you put your question, if we SHOULD belief in god, this is in truth a definite NO. And ill try to put this in the most logical explenation as I can for everyone to see self. Everyone has one obligation to nature, to choose.
For what reason do you choose this belief (picking a few examples). He created everything is answered to you, well is this what you like to believe and not know for sure.
There is a heaven and afterlife if you ask for a pardon of all your sins and mostly do good in life. Well look at that book again, does one really do what all is written in there, and does anyone cherish life so much he gave us, then why drive a car and leave msery behind in this place, if this would be true i would sent you back and close that gate for you. Appreciating more what you have after life then in life itself, so stupid.

But most of all, is good anything that someone should believe. Good has to be understood, has to be known, good has a truth, a true reality, it aint anything to believe.
Making a choice to believe in good, comes together with the opposite it is related to. SEEING BAD EXCISTS. Stop believe in good, and bad we do and know also stops.
And why in logic, as we will cry, scream, act from all the hurt we then feel from the bad and make it stop. There should not be an escape in believing something which does not excist and is better then what does excist, how will this ever help, never!

And what is most foolish to see is how some things are being constructed by people, and do not see them theyselves are telling that is only just a lie.
alcohol is allowed, weed is not. legal drugs from the medical organisations and illegal drugs from the cartels. Rules made by other people, laws made by other people. war is allowed where people are killed, murder is not. There is not one human being in any way ever baptised in the burning hot sun by god and survived this what would make him to be special and have some granted authority from this miracle we witnessed that even gives him the rights and needs to state what is and is not allowed or should be done.

No human being has any authority over anything that excists. BUt though I have one important question for you.

But there are rules which make life miserable and I cannot imagine stoping breaking those rules. For example software pircacy, not only software, but any intelectual properties like books, audio, video.

Can you tell me where you found any evidence that god really stated and said that this is wrong.

Wrong is just one thing, hurt other beings (and do not forget that everything is life, even planet earth in its whole). Stealing is wrong yes, but does someone steal with fx software piracy NO, did someone lost something or be hurt, NO.
3 parties, the software company making the software and not share this with everyone.
The consumer who downloads this for free but does not share his work either for free.
The pirate who cracks open the blockingcode and makes sharing available for everyone, make the multimillion dollar company loose a little bit.
The software creators do not ask anything in return which compensates their time and effort in creating the software, they go wayyyyy beyond till enternity, the more the better. Bill gates has billions of money resting on a bank, you think he cares how many have illegal windows running, he doesnt even blink from it. He dies while still having billions of money not doin anything, just sitting still on a bank, means to help many other more. He did not share all he could, just a tiny bit to keep up his imago, and one should be arrested and pay huge fines for illegal software because it is protected to not freely share among people, this bound by law is what bill wanted, not share. Thereby he lost any respect from consumers who use this pirated software as those consumers do not have this same respect too from not sharing their effort and time for eachother for free. And some people will make him share, the robin hoods, the pirates, those do good. They make an example not of the individual who suffers by damage, but of the consumer abuser who doesnt feel anything from the loss.


Do what you want, be free and dont give a sh** about what others tell you that is wrong or right, you can for sure decide yourself way better what is good, if all people did this they would understand all bad that we all see and by this we then can apply our knowledge of good.

Believing in a god is not understanding this world, we absolutely should not do this.
We have to believe in eachother and start knowing that we humans are not the ones who would do anything bad by intent, we just merely act upon fear.

I would for sure not ever follow any religion to belief, or take anyone serious who is into any belief, as I need to be sure about what is good and what is bad, I do not want to do anything wrong and it is impossible to prevent this as much as possible when I do not understand bad, this is how one gets to know good. Only knowledge and not belief leads to wisdom

cheers

Psychologically, it doesn't matter whether we believe in God.

What does matter, however, is what we believe God to be and what our relationship with Him is.

Likewise, if we choose not to believe in God, then it does matter what this lack of belief means to us and how we're going to choose to live as a result.

Since this is a psychology forum, not a philosophical forum, it may be helpful to keep our thoughts on this relationship as opposed to whether we should believe.

You are Christian Hamming.
Before Christianity there was Judaism.
Likewise, after Christianity there is Islam. Belief in Allah.
Islam is completely scientific, however we believe Allah/Eloh-im is the chief.
Like when i was shocked about finding something faster than light.
Light being Angels.
Was there something more ultimate?


I used to doubt like you, and Allah says it is OK to doubt him, however, then you take his place and work a little. It is a challenge of honor, something the most of the world doesn't have.
To respect doesn't mean like it is thought today to leave alone.
While it is important to leave alone, it should be important to leave alone in peace.

Do you want to relieve your conscience and not fear hell?
Here is the solution for the honorable strong, a word from the mighty Allah:

23. And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.
24. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
28. Say: "See ye?- If Allah were to destroy me, and those with me, or if He bestows His Mercy on us,- yet who can deliver the Unbelievers from a grievous Penalty?"

Like Shunyata said (i didn't read all but i appreciate Buddhism) theres much suffering in the world. However we need to believe in Allah.

It is always possible to ignore all this, but do NOT resist God. Like i said to naysayers its purely scientific. Dalai Lama says my religion is kindness, if you can't do good/skilled, don't do bad.

How can boozing be a sin when JC Himself turned water into wine?

bible is too big read, and might brainwash me in wrong way. But he is God, he can do whatever he wants. But we cannot do everything he can.

And if you find God so improbable (95% improbable), why are you worrying about your sins, hmm?

because it is not 100 %

You and millions of others, Hamming. They're all either feeling guilty or attending church regularly as a kind of insurance policy.

yea, at least this is one consolation

That doesn't sound like it comes from a God of Love, does it?

Burning forever if you are really bad, like killing other people when they are not guilty is God of Love because that motivates people to not kill others. And if you still do it, you deserve it. But if you do nothing bad but it is a sin, then it does not sound God of Love.
But he might not care if how it sounds for us, its his rules and we have to follow. For example in the bible - he did not allow to eat an apple. Does that sound God of Love? No. People where punished for eating an apple.

Hamming, you're 30 now -- old enough to have formed your own beliefs. When a salesman knocks at your door, do you end up buying things you don't want?. You can think for yourself, surely.

My believs change over time as I get new information. They do not change as often, some people change their believs once a month, they are annoying. If they would listen to me, they would not need to change after a month, because that is what I was thinking month earlier and still think same way. But they do not want to even listen.

And salesmen is not so huge problem, I do not risk burning forever if I choose to not buy his things.

Where do you think you'll go after you die? Do you think everything will just stop for you -- or that your soul will go marching on?

having in mind that I had not went to do confesion for almost 20 years, over that time I had collected tons of sins and I should be burning in hell I had not killed poeple. But I had been in organized crime at least what police calls it - when we went with 7 cars to another village and they wanted to fight agaings that village with baseball bats and other things. BUt I did not even want to do that, I just got pressure from my best friend at that time and I did not know how to avoid it, and even now I would not know if I was again in same pressure. And my goal was to make it end as best as it can. It ended up that police stopped all of us. I was scared. But good that it ended not so bad, I was not put in jail or smth, and we did not hurt anybody. So maybe its not a sin, but sin is from those who organizesd this and my friend who created a pressure for me.

It is only logic that people will create this and start believing in this when there is no control and answer to this bad we keep being confronted with, it is a refuge for those who need to find others just like themselves, having this idealogy and intent of good, it would be unwise to take this away, many people will see no exit anymore. If there was no such thing as believing into something, many would just realise their depression, they would suffer from seeing all this bad.

this really makes sense. And if there was no such risk of burning in hell forever, I would choose this.

Can you tell me where you found any evidence that god really stated and said that this is wrong.

About piracy being wrong I have googled. Thats because stealing is wrong and this is stealing. Not as same of course physical but still.

Bill gates has billions of money resting on a bank, you think he cares how many have illegal windows running, he doesnt even blink from it.

not all software companies or developers have billions. Plus he still tries to make it not so easy to get it for free, if that would not matter, he would not add those protection mechanisms.

But think about poor other devleopers, artits - who create an intelectual property and cannot make money because this can be stolen easily anyway. Thats good that at lesst software industry has good jobs with good pays where you can make good living. But art industry is much harder to make a living unless you are some special.

Like i said to naysayers its purely scientific.

Alah scientific? I did not understand from what you wrote. And Alach is real devil. And there my religion says there is no other gods, only this one. But Alach religion is much worse than my because it produces terrorists by saying if you kill other people you go to heavev. That is so crazy bs really. Good that I was not brainwashed to believe this. And bad that there are so many brainwashed islamists who believe in this sh** and make world worse place to live.

Sin . . .

Suppose, just for an instant, that sin is eating fired foods, and that Burning in Hell is how it feels from the acidosis that results from eating fired foods multiple times daily for years on end.

Hamming wrote:he is God, he can do whatever he wants. But we cannot do everything he can.

he might not care if how it sounds for us, its his rules and we have to follow.

If you think he exists, I guess you do.

My believs change over time as I get new information.

That goes for all of us. And when you're as old as I am, you'll still think (despite all the experience) that you've got it nailed down now and that other people should take note. That's just another illusion. I suggest you think for yourself, stop trying to have undue influence over your friends, and don't worry about what they think of you. It really doesn't matter.

You didn't answer this question:

Where do you think you'll go after you die? Do you think everything will just stop for you -- or that your soul will go marching on?

I'm assuming you think you're going to hang about indefinitely in some way? Are you frightened that you will, being tormented for your sins... or frightened that you won't?

Alach religion is much worse than my because it produces terrorists by saying if you kill other people you go to heavev. [...] And bad that there are so many brainwashed islamists who believe in this sh** and make world worse place to live.

This is racist, Hamming. Mustafa seems like a nice chap to me. He's trying to help you.

Jesus says in Passion of the Christ the movie Elahi/Ilahi at crusifiction. Elah means God in Arabic and Arameic, i assume Alach is in Hebrew. Look, isn't Allah which means Al-ilah (Al means the, like al-cohol) the same as Eloh-im? im is for respect, so it is Allah/Eloh. My teacher was a priest and i'm muslim, he told me Elohim means God.

I can't post link.

Where do you think you'll go after you die? Do you think everything will just stop for you -- or that your soul will go marching on?

If they are not lieing then I will go to heaven or to hell. Or there is purgatory in between to fix things before going to heaven. Yea, I will not go to heaven straigth most likely, I am not so good person by religion rules.
But I am really not sure where is the line where it is impossible to go to heaven and only way is burning in hell.

I'm assuming you think you're going to hang about indefinitely in some way? Are you frightened that you will, being tormented for your sins... or frightened that you won't?

I did not think I am going to hang indefinitely. I hope in heaven everyhthng will be good and fun, not bad things like in earth.
Or in hell - forever burning. I have no idea how it is possible to burn forewer but God can make you heal for a bit and you burn again , then heal a bit and you burn again and you feel the pain forever.

Yea, but those things sound stupid for other people who do not believe in God. I am not sure what to think. What I know that killing yourself is also a sin as killing other people and you go to hell. Who knows if not religion, maybe I would have killed myself during bad times.

This is racist, Hamming

I do not agree, but even if if you call it racist it does not matter for me. Its much worse to kill people than be racist.

My teacher was a priest and i'm muslim,

so you also think that killing other religion people is good and makes you go to heaven?

Hamming wrote:If they are not lieing then I will go to heaven or to hell. Or there is purgatory in between to fix things before going to heaven.

I'm guessing you were raised in Catholicism. Doesn't matter. Far as I can tell, all the major religions started as 1) an attempt to account for the origin of humans, now long discredited; and 2) a way of controlling populations by fear. Catholics are particularly good at this, terrifying people into absurd rituals while amassing a fortune and, in too many cases, kiddie-fiddling on the side.

Best I can do is live by my own principles, which naturally I consider sound. When the heart stops beating, the lungs stop breathing and the blood stops circulating, it makes no physical sense that the mind should go on suffering. Heaven, for those who believe they're headed there, is a pretty idea. It's extremely difficult to imagine non-existence. After all, personal experience tells me I've always been here, But I find it hard to believe I'll see all my loved ones, and recognise them, at some great tea-party in the sky.

You appear to believe you're a bad person in need of punishment "to fix things". Best you can do is stop doing the things you consider wrong, and focus on doing what matters to you and feels right. This is the basis of self-esteem.

I'm very much aware of the heaven or hell (or mixture of the two) people generate in our own minds. That's where heaven and hell are, for me. And if for argument's sake there is continuity of the spirit, it strikes me as highly likely our experience will be whatever we've practised all our lives.

I have frequently been tormented in my own mind for my 'sins'. Being bad-tempered or hurtful feels bad. Being helpful and loving feels good. To me, feels good is good, and feels bad is bad.

I hope in heaven everyhthng will be good and fun, not bad things like in earth.

There's a saying: as above, so below. Mentally healthy people find this life "good and fun". "Bad things" tend to emanate from unhappy people. If you're happy, you wouldn't dream of robbing or killing someone, you don't need to cheat, you use good judgment in the matter of speaking truth or lies. But this is not to divide people into good and bad. We're all a mixture of both, all doing our best with what we know.

I have no idea how it is possible to burn forewer but God can make you heal for a bit and you burn again , then heal a bit and you burn again and you feel the pain forever.

Sure -- but what a monster! I want nothing to do with any "god" like that.

I am not sure what to think. What I know that killing yourself is also a sin as killing other people and you go to hell.

Yet religion has led to more killing and associated suffering than all other reasons put together. There are wars in the Hindu Bhagavad Gita as well as the Christian Bible, in which the warriors and victors are glorified by God. Why do you suppose that is? Might it not be because the control of human life suited whoever wrote those books?

And I must correct you. You do not 'know' that killing yourself or others is a sin; it's what you've been told. You can only 'know' from personal experience. In private homes and hospitals all over the world, compassionate people administer overdoses of painkiller to people whose suffering is beyond endurance, and who have no hope of recovery. Do you think that sinful? Have you ever watched someone painfully struggling for each breath?

Further, several first-world countries are reconsidering the laws that forbid assisted suicide. As things stand, if you are in unendurable pain and no longer physically able to finish yourself off, anyone who helps you will be charged with murder.

If life is a gift, surely we must have the right to dispose of it. Something we're forced to accept isn't a gift but a burden. It isn't some god that insists we live and endure to the end; it's government law-makers for whom every citizen, no matter how incapacitated, represents GDP.

Who knows if not religion, maybe I would have killed myself during bad times.

I suspect what you mean by this is that the Fear of God prevented you, and I'm sorry to hear it. If you must have a God, Hamming, why not make It a good one who adores you and has your best interests at heart? Then you can set up a dialogue with It, as many have done before you, and It will turn your life around. Trade fear for faith, it's a happier take.

Fortunately the Muslim is no longer with us. The wise heads of the forum got rid of him.