Misogyny at the root of anger towards wives

**Posts:** 69 · by **Josh Smith** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 10:49 pm

Hi Leo,

Regarding Lundy Bancroft, the clues you are looking for are in your posts #2, #5, #37 and #43 and maybe other posts too.

I quite liked the ironic style of your last post but your prescription:

Go to the Courts and find an equitable way to end the relationship.

is not one I want to take.

I imagine you're assuming that if someone, like me, discovers that they have underlying a misogynist attitude of entitlement and superiority, they have to give up on partner relationships, like you did. I still hope and believe that I can change myself and become someone I can respect and live to the value of equality. Things have recently improved between me and my wife and I want to go on and on becoming a better person.

**Posts:** 69 · by **Josh Smith** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:02 pm

Hi Quiet voice,

You asked:

What role does thinking play in your experience and your behavior?

I think your question belongs to a different thread. However, the most relevant aspect of my relationship with my thoughts is that I have a tendency to believe whatever thoughts and emotions arise in my mindstream. My level of "witness consciousness" is poor, especially given the amount of meditation I have done.

**Posts:** 69 · by **Josh Smith** » Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:08 pm

Hi Bert ernie,

Regarding your challenge:

time and again you choosing to keep the conversation on problems you have with richard, problems you have with leo rather than choosing to stick to your initial topic of conversation.

I think the bit of information you missed was that I gave up quite a while ago on trying to discuss the topic of abusive anger at wives and turned my attention to how participants were expressing anger in the thread.

**Posts:** 12131 · by **Richard@DecisionSkills** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:13 am

Josh Smith wrote: Again, can you clarify your understanding of the term passive-aggression and why you admitted in post #51 to being passive-aggressive?

Josh,

If you had any intention of keeping an open mind that maybe, just maybe there can be alternate ways to look at the world, then I would be more than willing to discuss the differences in how you and I see the concept of passive-aggressive. But, it is painfully obvious you have no interest in alternate views, whether misogyny or passive-aggressive. How is that working for you?

How has it worked in life for you to claim a person distracts or dodges? How has it worked to say a person is implying? Not very well, don't you agree?

Please, continue making accusations, continue repeating the same pattern of behavior in life that has brought you in here struggling with anger and see how that pattern of behavior works for you.

I accept you have a different view of misogyny as a root cause, I accept what you believe is passive aggressive is different than what I believe. Fine, no big deal. How is your personal belief that I am wrong working out for you? Not angry yet? Wife happy yet?

Now I hold a personal belief you are wrong. How is my belief that you are wrong working out for me? Pretty darn good. I'm not angry, I have great relationships with friends and family, many which are women.

So go ahead and maintain your beliefs and I will maintain mine. Not a big deal. If what I believe is wrong, then I am fine being wrong and happy and you can continue to believe you are right and angry. Enjoy.

**Posts:** 1299 · by **bert_ernie** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:47 am

Josh Smith wrote:Hi Bert ernie,

Regarding your challenge:
time and again you choosing to keep the conversation on problems you have with richard, problems you have with leo rather than choosing to stick to your initial topic of conversation.

I think the bit of information you missed was that I gave up quite a while ago on trying to discuss the topic of abusive anger at wives and turned my attention to how participants were expressing anger in the thread.

ok good. you admit you have no interest in honestly discussing the initial topic and are more interested in feeling superior by cutting others down. i think i can safely ignore you then.

**Posts:** 69 · by **Josh Smith** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:54 pm

Hi Richard,

You wrote:

what you believe is passive aggressive is different than what I believe

I believe passive-aggression is where someone hurts or frustrates someone while pretending that they are innocent. The Wiki view states " The basic meaning of this [passive-aggression] is degrading and insulting others in a way that makes it sound neutral and not harmful."

When you admitted to being passive-aggressive in post #51, what did you mean by it?

**Posts:** 69 · by **Josh Smith** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:07 pm

Hi Bert-ernie,

I'm sorry that you interpret my motives as so negative. I stated my reasons for withdrawing from the debate about abusive anger towards towards wives in post #44 and I still stand by it.

**Posts:** 12131 · by **Richard@DecisionSkills** » Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:11 pm

Josh Smith wrote:I believe passive-aggression is where someone hurts or frustrates someone while pretending that they are innocent. The Wiki view states " The basic meaning...

Yep, that is a basic meaning. Other interpretations exist. One definition even goes so far to label procrastination as passive-aggressive behavior. I procrastinate sometimes, guess I'm passive-aggressive, lol.

You can go back through what I have already posted. I have already described what I mean by passive-aggressive.

Your intentions are obvious. You are not here to learn about anger. You are actually simply reinforcing the negative pattern with which you already struggle. Do you play these same semantic games with your wife that you are trying to play in here? Do you switch between playing victim and antagonist?

Once again, how is that working out for you?

Earlier you claimed it "bloody hurts" to talk with me, yet here you are just fine, unscathed. You are okay, right? Or would you like to switch back over to playing victim again for awhile?

Bottom line, from my perspective things are not working out so well for you. It seems like you struggle to get along with others, not just your wife.

**Posts:** 1152 · by **Leo Volont** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:16 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
Josh Smith wrote:I believe passive-aggression is where someone hurts or frustrates someone while pretending that they are innocent. The Wiki view states " The basic meaning...

Yep, that is a basic meaning. Other interpretations exist. One definition even goes so far to label procrastination as passive-aggressive behavior. I procrastinate sometimes, guess I'm passive-aggressive, lol.

You can go back through what I have already posted. I have already described what I mean by passive-aggressive.

Your intentions are obvious. You are not here to learn about anger. You are actually simply reinforcing the negative pattern with which you already struggle. Do you play these same semantic games with your wife that you are trying to play in here? Do you switch between playing victim and antagonist?

Once again, how is that working out for you?

Earlier you claimed it "bloody hurts" to talk with me, yet here you are just fine, unscathed. You are okay, right? Or would you like to switch back over to playing victim again for awhile?

Bottom line, from my perspective things are not working out so well for you. It seems like you struggle to get along with others, not just your wife.

Wow! Richard, that was Great!

BUT! It makes me wonder... Why Is that Guy Here!?

People Talk about Desperate and Crazy Behavior Being a Cry for HELP. Yes, in this Case, It probably might be!

BUT, +Yes, We have Tried to Help... in all of the Normal Ways. But NORMAL does not seem to be Working!

Is there Any Strategy available that We have been forgetful of that might help us reach this Guy?

Well, maybe not. You know, it is Possible that he is a Sociopathic Predator... basically Sadistic... oh, and Narcissistic! He has an Inflated Self Image of Himself which he tries, and often Succeeds, to Project... through Assertion and Bravado, and it Works just Fine with Most People (a Skill he has honed for Decades).... it works with poor trusting and unsuspecting people who are not accustomed to bothering to examine what people are actually Saying.... Bob Dylan was the same way in Press Interviews. ... but how many Dylan Songs are we still listening too? When the Hypnotic Trance of his inflated self promotion wears thin and expires, we find that most of his Songs simply did not Age Well. History will wonder what everyone saw in Bob Dylan. Hint...Bob was a practiced and convincing Narcissist.

But! Back to OUR subject... If he IS Sociopathic and Predatory, well, .... he is not Asking for Help.... He is here to Victimize us. To bother us and to cream in his pants when he sees that he has us 'going'. Every time he pushes one of our buttons I think he gives a little squirt and couldn't be happier.

Maybe this guy is a Lost Cause. Let God take care of Him.... well, not take 'care' of him, but give him what he Deserves.

**Posts:** 12131 · by **Richard@DecisionSkills** » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:07 pm

Leo Volont wrote:BUT! It makes me wonder... Why Is that Guy Here!?

Looking back over how this thread evolved my best guess, and it is only a guess, is that Josh initially felt he was going to come into the forum and educate everyone about his newly found wisdom regarding misogyny. He was not here to discuss or learn from others, he was not here to seek advice or collaborate, but rather to give advice, to impart his wisdom. He has struggled with anger issues and upon finding his prophet, Lundy Bancroft, with good and noble intent he came to the forum to help others. I applaud him for intent, yet I am critical of his dogmatic and less than forthright approach.

The problem is the reception received was not what he expected. Not a single member agreed with his dogma. The more he attempted to push a single minded view, this prophet of misogyny, the more he undermined his credibility as someone seeking a discussion on the subject.

Feeling rejected and under attack, Josh started using tactics he has used for years, probably decades. He began claiming he was victim while at the same time attacking.

The interesting thing is Josh set himself up for failure before he even created the thread. Instead of coming in and posting he had this great dogma in which he believed and wanted to share what he felt worked, he came in pretending to want an honest discussion on the topic. This strategy placed him on the defensive, needing to respond to any criticism of the dogma he believes 100% infallible.

I keep asking how it is working for him, because this is what I find most fascinating. Why does he continue the same pattern of behavior that has failed him in the past? Maybe he believes he is not repeating the same pattern? Or maybe he believes the pattern is working "good enough". I find this hard to believe given he recognizes his anger issues have been so harmful in his life. I don't know what he is thinking, which is why I ask.

**Posts:** 1152 · by **Leo Volont** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 1:17 pm

Hi Richard,

Wow, good. I looked over the thread a bit... so much of it... but, yes, what you say Clicks.

I think his Biggest Mistake was, as he is now Telling Us, to Jump Away from his Original Concerns with Misogyny and to concentrate on How ANGRILY and abusively and rudely we have treated him... instead of simply agreeing with Him on his WORD.... of course assuming that we were able somehow to Intuit that he was some kind of Divinely Inspired Prophet... thus being liberated from the Ordinary Requirements of being Logical or Intellectually Convincing.

Oh, thank you for telling me who Lundy Bancroft was. I really had no clue. I thought that Lundy Bancroft had been a person who Wrote In. Lord Knows, and please forgive me, I have harsh enough to some New Posters, and so I figured that our Friend Josh was castigating me for abusing in the worst way somebody who came to us for Help. So thank you so much. it turns out that I simply did some Research and then Gave my Honest, Considered, and Educated viewpoint on what I found Lundy Bancroft's DOCTRINE to be...;apparently I really HATED IT... in no uncertain terms. I wish I knew the Post... it would probably be Great Fun to read now... I am always at my Literary Best when I am pontificating about Things that I HATE... well, aren't we all...?

**Posts:** 653 · by **Introspectah** » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:47 pm

It's because I have been puzzled by my own behaviour towards my wife - anger tantrums, conniving, blatant lying and endless passive-aggression. I've read books and analysed myself a great deal to understand why I do this and why I'm getting nastier as the years go by.

Might be helpful

**Posts:** 1152 · by **Leo Volont** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:51 am

Introspectah wrote:
It's because I have been puzzled by my own behaviour towards my wife - anger tantrums, conniving, blatant lying and endless passive-aggression. I've read books and analysed myself a great deal to understand why I do this and why I'm getting nastier as the years go by.

Might be helpful

Dear Introspect,

That was Great!

I am studying Math and I have learned that when you get Really Tangled Up in a Problem... sometimes it is best to just Erase the Board and go back to the beginning. Yes, that tells us All.

Of Course, at the time we thought his Confession of having these aberrant and anti-social tendencies indicated that he was here to learn how to Mitigate Them, or rid himself of Them altogether... we did not realize he was only giving us "Fair Warning" for the Immanent Attack he would bring down upon us all.

I only wished that he warned us that he was an Anger Predator and achieved too much personal... even physical, satisfaction from being brutal, and offensive to ever want to give it up.

I expect that the only thing that could Bring Him Around, is that his World launched a Counter Attack upon him... that his wife would leave him and he get fired from his Job. So far, he Thinks he is Getting Away with IT. He is like a Sexual Predator who goes to Bars and has Gotten Away with virtually raping scores of girls, But no one yet has ever called the cops... or interested the local district Attorney into Prosecuting the Case (people forget that Pressing Charges is kind of useless unless the District Attorney Feels Like actually prosecuting the Caser ... anybody... before Every charging anybody with a Crime, you should simply call the District Attorney's Office and politely ask whether or not you would simply be wasting your time... anyway, our Friend here has not really ever felt enough Contrary Effects of his Behavior... well, not enough to offset the Pleasure he derives from them, to give him any Real Motivation to change his Ways. Instead, well, he is just Getting Off on Screwing with Us.

Isn't it great to Know that People find our Website... well... Pleasurable... ? .... if not useful....

**Posts:** 69 · by **Josh Smith** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:25 pm

Hi Richard,

So, your put-downs are now that I'm playing "semantic games", being only here to "impart his wisdom", I'm a "prophet of misogeny", "pretending to want an honest discussion on the topic".

You wrote:

Josh Smith wrote:
I believe passive-aggression is where someone hurts or frustrates someone while pretending that they are innocent. The Wiki view states " The basic meaning...

Yep, that is a basic meaning.

Is it that meaning that you are admitting to?

**Posts:** 69 · by **Josh Smith** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:37 pm

Leo,

You wrote:

If he IS Sociopathic and Predatory, well, .... he is not Asking for Help.... He is here to Victimize us. To bother us and to cream in his pants when he sees that he has us 'going'. Every time he pushes one of our buttons I think he gives a little squirt and couldn't be happier.

and

He is like a Sexual Predator who goes to Bars and has Gotten Away with virtually raping scores of girls

As you may well imagine, I find these and other comments of yours completely unacceptable.

Misogyny at the root of anger towards wives

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