Wolf Pack

IMO to host someone in your home both husband and wife should agree. The home is sanctuary. The same as he probably would not enjoy if you invited any number of people over without any input on his part it is equally a problem if he does not seek your input.

The above stated I think you may wish to reconsider who is the wolf and who is the puppy. Currently he is Alpha. The proof? He does what he wishes. He invites whoever, whenever he likes. That doesn't sound like a puppy to me. That sounds like he is in control of the pack and you, being the Beta, understandably don't like it. That is why you are in here.

My advice is to have a serious discussion with your husband about establishing and respecting shared boundaries.

I been trying to post since yesterday and it keeps saying it looks too spamy, which is odd. I totally get your point and will be talking to him like today. He is very much in control which was ok, until it started not to be if that makes sense. No one values the idea of someone's home or someones space at all it seems anymore. As far as puppy wolf thing, I meant it like...a wolf is generally just keeps to its pack, and is loyal and reserved, etc where as a puppy just hops around and wags its tail at anyone who greets it and loves ppl ..(now he isnt that extreme) but it has it feels....but keep in mind for 15 years, we both were wolves in that sense, then he just turned into...I guess what society would see as normal...but ...hmmm extreme example, you take a your average joe, hes normal for the first 18 years of his life, he joins the army then goes to war---15 years of it,comes home and is changed, obviously...and for good in more ways then not. Yet everyone else around him is "normal" to his "not normal?" like hes conditioned to be a little reserved, maybe a little jumpy yet ppl drag him into situations where theres alot of noise and things that just..isnt good for him. How do you put someone through a extreme enviroment for so long then expect them to just fit right back into lifes need for over socialization? Its like that, its like.....how do you expect someone who was use to something for so long to just...be ok with people exp people who are overbearing and disrespectful to any form of common manners, and I duno I guess I feel robbed of time too..just alot of things that he should know, bc he was the first to lay the foundation, then he goes switching it all up, and the ppl..I tell him...hey this doesnt work for us, and they ignore it...so I get mad and try to have my husband explain it to them...and they ignore him, but he just rolls over and has his tummy rubbed. I just want simple boundaries and equality with these ppl that prob wont go away as Id like them to.

A wolf pack, a group, a family are all dynamic relationships between individuals. The relationships evolve over time, some slow, some fast. After establishing a foundation, what do you do? You build on the foundation, you create, you grow.

Relationships change. Relationships grow. And all relationships eventually end.

It sounds like the relationship is changing either too fast or in a way that you do not like, e.g.

CandyApples wrote: and I duno I guess I feel robbed of time too..just alot of things that he should know, bc he was the first to lay the foundation, then he goes switching it all up,

You refer to him being the one that needs to in some sense revert back to the way things were. He needs to change and he needs to conform to your wants and expectations. You don't have the desire to go down the path he is now choosing. There is a type of resentment and disapproval of him and how he is changing, but what about you?

It doesn't sound like he has broken the foundation, meaning he has not violated some vow or covenant. He has not been unfaithful, for instance. His only transgression is that in your eyes he is no longer honoring the "wolf pack contract" and this hurts.

I think the bottom line for you to consider is that and the end of the day relationships are a contract. Most relationships are informal, but some are formal. There is not really any such thing as "we" or "us" as much as there are individuals with shared values and interests that agree to pursue a particular path in life. He is straying from the path you wish to take and this hurts.

It sounds like it is time to renegotiate the contract. It is fair to expect that he will want some concessions as should you. If time is an issue then make that a top issue. If inviting people into the home is an issue, make sure to put that on the table. Hopefully, he is willing to renegotiate but how you write about the relationship makes it sound like he has no reason to sit down at the table. I'm not sure if that makes sense?

CandyApples wrote:I feel alot of resentment

That much is clear. Unfortuntely, as has been said elsewhere, exactly what you resent is lost in walls of text.

I'll take a guess, that your resentment is about Other People being Who They Are instead of thinking and acting the way you do. They get along with people more easily than you do, which makes them superficial, shallow and selfish. And for some reason that also isn't clear, you're forced to go along with their plans.

Hmmm.

Hello Richard, again you are correct, and we have discussed it. Things change and I need to regroup and open my eyes and rewrite the contract if you will. He has not violated anything and is a loyal husband as far as not cheating etc...I think for you and Candid, Ill give some background---so ok..in highschool i had a lot of friends, met my now husband who told me to give up everyone I knew, literally if I wanted to be with him. In sum I did, literally, everyone. I had to ask to go places for example a concert, and even had to watch how I spoke or how I dressed. As I grew, my best friend and life line out into the world became my dad, i went out to eat with him, went on adventures with him, confided in him, even spent valentines day and bdays as my now husband wouldnt do anything for me, etc. My dad was my world, then my child was born and it was us three, all the time, my husband worked and came home, but that was about it in a nut shell, he didnt want to go out really, and could hardly be bothered away from the computer. This went on for years. Slowly my husband started having friends and going out with these ppl, not to bars or nothing, innocent things like "video game" nights and such. I was ok bc I had my dad. 4 years ago my dad died, suddenly and in a tramatic way...I was the one who had to see the blood on the bed and call the cops, etc.....it tore me apart and still does.........my husband, I dont think even hugged me once through out it even though he tried I guess to support me?.....so now... Im left with "nothing" in that regard, how to live life now? My child and I are very close, but she is going on 15 and wanting to live her own life....so now, I look to my husband strongly for companionship..which he gives but now....its..with these people, and I resent that bc I had to give up years of not being with my ppl for example, and he even got mad when I went with places with my dad, my dad was barely allowed into our house for x amount of time bc of my husband wanting his space, or I dont pay attention to "him"..it was so weird...so I feel now, that i have nothing in that sense, very resentful, bc here he is just enjoying life, and I wasnt allowed to and cant now, bc the ppl I would go with, are dead or gone. To add, my husband 2 out of the 5 ppl really just (the ones I talk about) are not good for me as a person, I dont like how i feel /think bc of them, 1 out of the 5 will barely say hi, and the other one is pretty cool I like him....so that is a fraction of my resentment and the underlying reason why I may come across as jaded or my way is the highway. Im far from wanting to control the world, I just want to do my own thing, and if I do have to "share" my time or bend, I just want the same respect --like dont tell me how to talk or how to decorate or tap me on the head and say oh sweetie like Im stupid ---I dont think guests who barley know eachother should do that. I duno...I never do that to ppl

and again, mostly to candid...when christmas came last year and my sis in law was being over controlling and flat out selfish in rude about her friends and the type of decor I have in my house, when I couldnt even have my own dad at my house for xmas as much when he was alive.....really rubbed me the wrong way. When my husband would get annoyed if i even suggested a christmas party for others, then brings these ppl into our lives inwhich Ive had not 1 but 3 parties for...ya I feel a little resentment. Im too busy trying to survive my broken heart and my past mistakes and take in the contradictions, then to please someone who would rather have me have a freakin snowman napkin at my house(and throw a huge fit about it) instead of the blue snowflake ones I picked out.(which I didnt care throw them away for all i care, napkins are napkins..it stupid).....someone who has both parents alive, someone who only met me a handful of times, someone who isnt even my real in law bc shes not freakin married, ya sorry Im not gonna be a happy camper....

CandyApples wrote: met my now husband who told me to give up everyone I knew, literally if I wanted to be with him. In sum I did, literally, everyone. I had to ask to go places for example a concert, and even had to watch how I spoke or how I dressed.

So basically sense the very beginning of the relationship you voluntarily subjugated yourself to him. He made huge demands, that you voluntarily give up everyone or the relationship was over and you said yes.

In return you received the life you chose, a man that could do pretty much anything he wants outside of maybe a few things. He need not seek your permission to speak a certain way, dress, or go to a concert. That was okay with you...as you wanted this man for some reason.

For 15 years his activities were acceptable to you, but now he has started to venture off to explore new aspects of his life.

I’m glad that you wish to renegotiate the contract. I wish you success. My concern is that I’m not sure you currently have that skill set or any leverage. What you wrote almost sounds like some form of voluntarily servitude. You gave up 100% of your freedom as an individual 15 years ago. That’s hard to suddenly go back to the negotiating table and say that you will dress, speak, and go places without his approval.

Based on all of your threads it seems like you struggle with self esteem...not necessarily in a purely negative sense, but who voluntarily submits to demands to give up all their relationships for a single intimate relationship? Obviously you do. And what type of person is so controlling, fearful, jealous, and lacking in trust that they demand someone they love give up all relationships just for them? Obviously your husband.

Over 15 years he may no longer be so jealous and untrusting, controlling, etc. but that is the foundation of the relationship. Maybe you see it different. Maybe you see someone demanding you give up XYZ as a strong man, caring or supportive, but from the point of psychology it is a person struggling with issues of self esteem, trust, and control. That is the person you married.

Certainly both of you have grown over time. Again, good luck with the contract negotiation. Let us know how it goes. From an outside perspective it doesn’t sound like you have much authority in the relationship. This makes it difficult to bargain for what you want.

Cant say I disagree----and yes I made my bed and now I need to lay in it as far as, it was me who gave up alot for him. Part of me is kicking myself now for it, which is a heavy price to pay. I think its more like..self esteem is not really a issue as "self"--per say----- just more like...a leverage thing, I do not have much power I guess and that can be scary. What the real problem is I honestly miss my dad very much. Take the word dad away, and just replace it with a being that made up most of your smiles, your laughter, who you could call at 3am when you were sad, someone who just had your back no matter what...I think I just miss..that and have no idea how to ----fill that void. Its scary, its like being in a ocean forever, and you had a little floating island which you could swim to when you were tired, and now that island is gone, and its just you in that ocean forever keeping you head above water, and its sooo very tired to keep your arms and legs moving ...let alone to know there are sharks beneath the waves. Your thankful for the starry nights, but you just get more tired by the day. You cant sink, dont want to sink...and eventually ideas turn into panic. I duno--Let me put it another way, the movie The Trueman show, when through out the main characters life he thought his reality was just so, then suddenly learns he is actually on a movie set and it all was false. That realization really messes with your mind.
While my husband and I are in a better place as a whole, and things are much easier than in highschool/young adult years, I feel my new allowed freedom just feels like a joke, its like finally letting a runner sign up to run in a race, after both of his knees got busted, not while he was whole and ready. So you could imagion the anger and sadness, but to add, if my husband would just stop allowing certain people in our lives as much, and give me a break to heal and regroup...it would be so much better. He doesnt understand how deep this all goes. When Im already down and wounded I dont need strangers coming at me with a stick and poking. Anyways, we will see what the future holds. I may just resign into not reacting at all and just fall more into myself and be the best person I can be that way, bc all this trying to fight a uphill battle is just...not what I want to do with my time.

CandyApples wrote: Take the word dad away, and just replace it with a being that made up most of your smiles, your laughter, who you could call at 3am when you were sad, someone who just had your back no matter what...I think I just miss..that and have no idea how to ----fill that void.

Replace it with “husband”.

When you imagined meeting a person that you were going to spend the rest of your life with was it not that person, that life partner, that was suppose to make up most of your smiles, laughter, and can talk with at 3am?

It’s a rhetorical question. The answer is yes.

You are looking to fill this void that in theory was not suppose to exist. The father walks the daughter down the aisle and the husband becomes that life partner that provides that emotional support.

I guess I don’t understand how 15 years ago you selected your husband. He asks you to give up all your relationships to be with him and then he isn’t the person that then fills the void, that then provides the smiles, the laughter, the shoulder to cry on.

I’m not saying your husband is not a great guy. It’s just hard to understand your decisions. It’s hard to understand what you believed that you were getting out of the relationship? So far it sounds like you were getting a man that was controlling and not going to provide emotional support. You had to get that from your father.

Yes, hmm I guess I dont understand much of it myself, except at 17 you know, you dont look into things as deep, as time progressed I guess I got use to the idea of just my now husband and I and for a bit, he was the one that , well became my best friend, my provider, I figured giving up certain things was worth a guy who wasnt typical, like he didnt go from girl to girl, or go bar hoping, etc, he was romantic at first, and as a teen thinking you know the world is so bad (when it wasnt teens just are dramatic ) I liked being cocooned within him I guess?? But we grow older ...and I pulled away several times, but always went back..he started pulling away when he got a nice paying job, car, started branching out and didnt really "need" me--is how I first say it. We were on and off ,then well life happened with a child, who is the best thing that ever ever happend to me, I raised her on my own basically for a year, which is hard for a young mom so I was grateful when he came back. Instead of nagging over and over about needing more emotional support ( you know guys are from mars girls are from venus I guess, we like to talk, most men dont...things like that I guess)...I decided as long as we had a roof over our head and he was there, I could just be happy with myself and kinda self fill the emotional side, but then it ended up my dad (who also had some hard times in life) we became eachothers crutch and he was super great with his granddaughter, so it kinda worked for a while...and silly as it sounds, I never expected to lose my dad for a long long long time and when it did happen, I expected to say goodbye and prepare for life without him. Fastforward, my husband just, Im not sure i think he thinks Im all set in life and Im just emotional or being a girl, as he does take care of us very well, I think it makes his head hurt to ..I dunoo. We tried talking recently, its yes dear and then he like playfully dismisses me. I think eventually he will get it, bc atleast now he is listening, he says Im his best friend....but I told him I dont feel he is mine....he says he works 12 hrs a day (which he does) and is too tired to do xyz..........which is fine, but see thats what triggers me bc when his bro/my sis in law want to do something, its right away hes on board....so its things like that, granted he did turn down the ticket thing they recently offered ...but after a huge fight, and it wasnt that I didnt want him to go, it was just how THEY went about it, and me self admitting that it just bothers me when --well you know from my posts. Also, im growing older, almost 40, its scary, I see my face and I see where I start to age and IM terrified, I dont want to look back 2o years from now, wrinkled and maybe with health issues, etc...and just be like wow, I should of done xyz when I could...Its just a mess lol...heck even writing this I dont know what to say. I did tell my husband all this though, its just a process. ( did I mention he is 2 1/2 years younger than me and the ppl he brings around is like 4 plus years younger, no kids..so its like..just cant relate no matter how hard I try at times) and it can be lonely. Then, what to do when the kiddo moves out, oh thats gonna hurt ha, I have no idea how I will handle that......what...will my life be? I think that question sets panic in all of us.---- I love him, but Im a very eccentric and whimsical person--and want to feel the butterflies again and just feel my story, our story just wont be in his shadow..just looking for more of a us, not sure if that makes sense..

back to the wolf pack, sis in law his friends thing, they come into play, bc I opened up about this with them, and just explained hey you know can we all do things as a unit and can we take smaller steps, as our relationship isnt founded on going out and partying etc all the time, plus we have a kid, etc...and they just ignore it, plus the arrogance that comes with it and the snyde remarks and looks. The other guy (my husbands friends) feels the same way about them and is distanting himself from them too, they are not bad ppl just....their ways are not what benefits us at the moment and they are far from relaxed nonjudemental ppl so its very draining to sit and smile and keep quiet for their sake. The other guy thinks the same, they flat out will without regret, embaress him etc and its like.....you wanna say look in the mirror why are you showing up creating havoc for everone? So its draining, Im already on drain mode so when they come around it just intensifies. Its not always like that, I can say we all had good days, but its like...just give us space. Shes also very materialistic, which Im not. I can fit my valuables into 2 backpacks, and they are mostly photo albums. I value my life, and my family, I would take you spendinging time with me reading a book over a 1,000 dollar ring any day. She on the other hand and she said this, shows loves through materials...so decorations have to be extravagant, when she wants all of us to hang out, its to the extreme. I told her my income is thin, I have bills , other obligations, and she gets mad and always has to do something bigger and better which I resent. Like my husbands bday, My money is thin this month so I planned on doing a cake, going out to a nice burger place and taking him to this small video game event. I asked if he wanted his ppl with him, he said no, except for the one guy that gets along with all of us. So cool, then going back to my prev post about his brother suddenly buying him $150 ticket to something cities away, and inviting everyone as a thing for my husbands bday (buying them tickets) but me...just again, flipped, I do soemthing, they gotta do better....and I cant keep up, so they just dismiss me, I feel like extra baggage and always in competetion and it stinks. I mean have a brothers night, go for it, but when you then invite your significate other to it, why wouldnt it be normal for me to go--I duno, Im sure by now you see the layers and layers of all this....trigger points,

Reposted for a little bit easier reading . . .

quote="CandyApples"

Yes, hmm I guess I dont understand much of it myself, except at 17 you know, you dont look into things as deep, as time progressed I guess I got use to the idea of just my now husband and I and for a bit, he was the one that , well became my best friend, my provider, I figured giving up certain things was worth a guy who wasnt typical, like he didnt go from girl to girl, or go bar hoping, etc, he was romantic at first, and as a teen thinking you know the world is so bad (when it wasnt teens just are dramatic ) I liked being cocooned within him I guess??

But we grow older ...and I pulled away several times, but always went back..he started pulling away when he got a nice paying job, car, started branching out and didnt really "need" me--is how I first say it.

We were on and off ,then well life happened with a child, who is the best thing that ever ever happend to me, I raised her on my own basically for a year, which is hard for a young mom so I was grateful when he came back. Instead of nagging over and over about needing more emotional support ( you know guys are from mars girls are from venus I guess, we like to talk, most men dont...things like that I guess)

...I decided as long as we had a roof over our head and he was there, I could just be happy with myself and kinda self fill the emotional side, but then it ended up my dad (who also had some hard times in life) we became eachothers crutch and he was super great with his granddaughter, so it kinda worked for a while...and silly as it sounds, I never expected to lose my dad for a long long long time and when it did happen, I expected to say goodbye and prepare for life without him.

Fastforward, my husband just, Im not sure i think he thinks Im all set in life and Im just emotional or being a girl, as he does take care of us very well, I think it makes his head hurt to ..I dunoo. We tried talking recently, its yes dear and then he like playfully dismisses me.

I think eventually he will get it, bc atleast now he is listening, he says Im his best friend....but I told him I dont feel he is mine....he says he works 12 hrs a day (which he does) and is too tired to do xyz..........which is fine, but see thats what triggers me bc when his bro/my sis in law want to do something, its right away hes on board....so its things like that, granted he did turn down the ticket thing they recently offered ...but after a huge fight, and it wasnt that I didnt want him to go, it was just how THEY went about it, and me self admitting that it just bothers me when --well you know from my posts.

Also, im growing older, almost 40, its scary, I see my face and I see where I start to age and IM terrified, I dont want to look back 2o years from now, wrinkled and maybe with health issues, etc...and just be like wow, I should of done xyz when I could...Its just a mess lol...heck even writing this I dont know what to say.

I did tell my husband all this though, its just a process. ( did I mention he is 2 1/2 years younger than me and the ppl he brings around is like 4 plus years younger, no kids..so its like..just cant relate no matter how hard I try at times) and it can be lonely.

Then, what to do when the kiddo moves out, oh thats gonna hurt ha, I have no idea how I will handle that......what...will my life be? I think that question sets panic in all of us.---- I love him, but Im a very eccentric and whimsical person--and want to feel the butterflies again and just feel my story, our story just wont be in his shadow..just looking for more of a us, not sure if that makes sense..

-endquote-


quote="CandyApples"

back to the wolf pack, sis in law his friends thing, they come into play, bc I opened up about this with them, and just explained hey you know can we all do things as a unit and can we take smaller steps, as our relationship isnt founded on going out and partying etc all the time, plus we have a kid, etc...and they just ignore it, plus the arrogance that comes with it and the snyde remarks and looks.

The other guy (my husbands friends) feels the same way about them and is distanting himself from them too, they are not bad ppl just....their ways are not what benefits us at the moment and they are far from relaxed nonjudemental ppl so its very draining to sit and smile and keep quiet for their sake. The other guy thinks the same, they flat out will without regret, embaress him etc and its like.....you wanna say look in the mirror why are you showing up creating havoc for everone?

So its draining, Im already on drain mode so when they come around it just intensifies. Its not always like that, I can say we all had good days, but its like...just give us space. Shes also very materialistic, which Im not. I can fit my valuables into 2 backpacks, and they are mostly photo albums. I value my life, and my family, I would take you spendinging time with me reading a book over a 1,000 dollar ring any day.

She on the other hand and she said this, shows loves through materials...so decorations have to be extravagant, when she wants all of us to hang out, its to the extreme. I told her my income is thin, I have bills , other obligations, and she gets mad and always has to do something bigger and better which I resent. Like my husbands bday, My money is thin this month so I planned on doing a cake, going out to a nice burger place and taking him to this small video game event.

I asked if he wanted his ppl with him, he said no, except for the one guy that gets along with all of us. So cool, then going back to my prev post about his brother suddenly buying him $150 ticket to something cities away, and inviting everyone as a thing for my husbands bday (buying them tickets) but me...just again, flipped, I do soemthing, they gotta do better....and I cant keep up, so they just dismiss me, I feel like extra baggage and always in competetion and it stinks.

I mean have a brothers night, go for it, but when you then invite your significate other to it, why wouldnt it be normal for me to go--I duno, Im sure by now you see the layers and layers of all this....trigger points,

-endquote-

CandyApples wrote:I couldnt even have my own dad at my house for xmas as much when he was alive

Why not?

When my husband would get annoyed if i even suggested a christmas party for others, then brings these ppl into our lives inwhich Ive had not 1 but 3 parties for...

Why?

Im too busy trying to survive my broken heart and my past mistakes and take in the contradictions, then to please someone who would rather have me have a freakin snowman napkin at my house(and throw a huge fit about it) instead of the blue snowflake ones I picked out.(which I didnt care throw them away for all i care, napkins are napkins..it stupid)

Why are these people making every decision that affects you?

.....someone who has both parents alive, someone who only met me a handful of times, someone who isnt even my real in law bc shes not freakin married, ya sorry Im not gonna be a happy camper....

Why do you not stand up for what you want? You imply it doesn't matter to you, but clearly it does.

For the sake of your mental-emotional health, it may be time to leave.

On and off relationship, and then . . .
Married too young, to start with.*
Forced to leave friends behind.
Spouse has no respect for shared living space.
Spouse has no respect for your time spent with significant family member.
Spouse controls your actions.
Etc.

Marrying for the comfort of monetary support always has its downfall.

and is a loyal husband as far as not cheating etc

You can't know that for sure. He doesn't act like he has respect for you . . . why would he not find some kind of fun on the side. You did say he works "12 hours a day," you can't know how he spends that twelve hours, unless you are with him those whole twelve hours every day.


*it is suggested by certain advisors to the male population that a man should not marry before the age of 25.