Breakup - Was I in the Wrong???

Postby Ascendant78 » Sun Feb 13, 2022 2:39 am

Ok, I wrote a previous topic on here about the issues between a girlfriend and me. Since the last post, we split up. Again. I don't want to rehash all in detail, but I wanted to hear other people's opinions on this.

To sum up the issues leading into this, my girlfriend is sensitive about a LOT of topics. Those topics range from: no asking about past relationships, no asking about difficulties from her past, no complaining about not getting enough time together, nothing that could be seen as negative about any of the kids (no matter what they're doing), no comments that would indicate I doubt her love for me (despite her having broken up with me more times than I can count now), if my opinion is different than hers I either need to not say it or approach it EXTREMELY delicately, and there are about eight others, but you get the idea.

If I do end up talking about one of those things, at any given time in the conversation, she can get furious with me. When she does, there is no reasoning with her. She will insist I was asking because I have ill-intent, yell at me, usually calls me names and insults, and breaks up with me. Yes, it is very emotionally abusive. She actually tries to say I am the one who is abusive for asking her questions I'm supposed to "know" I can't ask about. But, she adds to the list every day, and then I find out what was added that "I was supposed to know already" after the fact when she is already yelling at me and/or breaking up with me.

I am a very giving person, so none of my actions towards her or the family have ever even once indicated any ill-intent. Regardless, she doubts the intentions of just about everything that comes out of my mouth.

She has even admitted herself she doesn't understand why we can talk about a topic one day and it's fine, but then the same topic on another day and she gets angry. She blames my tone of voice, my mannerisms, how I say it, and "her gut feeling." So, no matter what I tell her as far as my intent, she won't believe me at that point if her "gut" tells her otherwise.

There's a lot more to this, as my personal psychologist believe it's triggers from past trauma she has been through. Subconscious based fear reactions to potential threats to her emotional well being. If she sees something as even having a slim chance of having ill-intent, her subconscious seems to convince her conscious it is true and to fight it.

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That is the type of stuff I covered in my last thread, the one that led up to this.

Two weeks ago, we had a pretty good weekend. Last weekend was horrible though. My birthday was on the 3rd (Thurs before weekend), so we planned to celebrate my birthday over the weekend. She got upset with me Fri, because she told me the day before I could ask her questions that I'm normally not allowed to, but then I did and she got angry anyway! She told me I didn't prepare her and that it was bad timing. But, when I was asking them, never once did she complain until after she was furious with me. Then, the same thing as usual. She nearly broke up with me and told me to leave. Instead of leaving, I just gave her space. Well, the whole weekend went by and she never got over it, so we spent practically no time together. I even had to go out on my birthday dinner by myself.

And even though we were good all that week prior to the weekend, she got me NOTHING for my birthday! No cake, no surprise, not even a gift! So on Fri night, she is shopping around on Amazon to get something after the fact. It comes on Sat, she opens the Amazon packages, and just tosses both in front of me. One of them was a birthday card, but it wasn't even filled out. The second one was a fill in the blank book about couples. It was sweet, but again, it was blank. I didn't even know what to say, as she just tossed two things in front of me without even writing on the card or the book. So, of course since I wasn't excited over her gifts, she then gets even angrier at me and pushes me away more. So again, she did something I felt was wrong, but then I take the brunt of it.

We normally see each other on the weekends and Weds. She barely talked to me the next several days, and I was dreading she was going to end the relationship yet again (or already thought we were over). She made it clear that she did not want me coming on Weds. We talk a little more Thurs and Fri, so then Fri afternoon, I come over.

So, my birthday weekend was completely ruined, she knew this, and we have not had any quality time together in two weeks. When I first show up, she is sweet and affectionate, hugs me and kisses me.

I got there at 6:30pm, and shortly after greeting me, she spends an hour or so cleaning the house. She then spends an hour or so cooking dinner for everyone. By the time she is finished with cleaning and cooking, it was around 9 if I remember correctly. Her son (who she has full-time) said he wanted tea after dinner. The place he wanted to go to was about a 15-20min drive. For TEA. She immediately tells him yes.

By this point, I got upset. I felt she hadn't appreciated me driving an hour and a half to her in horrible traffic, making the effort (as I'm always the one who has to) to come see her. I felt blown off all so her son could get tea. I made it clear I was upset, as I had to cook more dinner and couldn't leave yet (she didn't make enough for everyone, as she feeds all the other young adults in the house too). I made it clear it was going on about 2.5hrs or however long it was by that point, and we had spent no quality time together, and now, she was going to spend about 40-50mins getting her son tea instead of enjoying time with me. I felt completely unappreciated, disregarded, taken for granted, and unloved.

When she got back, I tried to approach the situation as gently and calmly as I could, dreading if I didn't, she would get mad at me. Told her how I felt disappointed. I explained how we hadn't had quality time in 2 weeks at that point, still did nothing for my birthday, how she spent hours after I get there doing other stuff and making absolutely no quality time for me, then spends another 40-50mins to go get her son tea over time with me. I explained how it made me feel, why I felt that way, etc. Despite me approaching it calm and rational and being open about my feelings, she then gets angry and starts yelling at me. Complaining she "can't do anything right" how she can never make me happy, and asking why I'm with her when everything she does is wrong. I felt it was COMPLETELY blown out of proportion. I was letting her know I was feeling unappreciated, and in return, she starts fighting with me and turned into something it wasn't. I mean seriously, all I was looking to do was show her why I was disappointed, maybe get an apology or some form of acknowledgement on her end, and then we could enjoy the rest of the weekend. Mainly, I wanted to be heard. But, she took it as a direct attack against her as a person, so the fighting ensued.

She initially ended us during that argument, but then later said she never did. At this point, I was going to be lucky to have 30-60mins with her before she "gets ready for bed," which consists of 1-8hrs of playing games on her phone (I'd say average 4-6hrs), then sleeping in because she was playing games all night instead of trying to spend time with me.

We get into bed, things are good for maybe 30mins, then ANOTHER argument starts! This one was over yet another thing I felt was trivial. She got upset because we were talking about a FB post she made years back, about how she was so hot from watching an actor on TV that she needed a towel. All I said at that point is I wish I could make her feel that way. She immediately got upset with me. So then, I tried to explain that I wonder if there were other men she felt were more attractive than me, and basically seeing where I stood in all that. She then goes on to telling me how another guy she met was hotter than me. Could've been gentle, but since she was angry, she blurts it out just like that. Of course, I'm a little hurt, especially because she claimed she never had an attraction to anyone like she does with me. I just wasn't expecting that, and in such a cold way.

Now, it turns into a full-blown argument. She complains about how I always have to compare myself to others, that she's fed up with me always wanting to "be the best" of all men she's been with, etc. But I told her, yes, overall I need a relationship to (eventually over time) be the best one a person has had to date, because I don't want to be a second choice or something they're settling for. I have very high standards, ones that she well more than meets and I told her numerous times, but she just dislikes that I "set the bar so high."

So now, she breaks up with me yet again. All because I asked how I measure up with others. I wasn't talking about her exes, as I knew I wasn't allowed to. I made SURE it was a topic she did not tell me I couldn't talk about.

To add, as far as that list of things I had to avoid, a couple days or so before that, I put together the list to keep on my phone. To review it over and over, and make DAMN sure I avoid all the things on that list. I copied and pasted it to her one day, asking her to add anything she felt was necessary. She added nothing.

So, I bring up that what she is angry about was not on that list. She then tells me I should know that this is a topic I can't talk about, even though it wasn't on the list (even though she had the opportunity to add anything she wanted). So now, she breaks up with me over a NEW topic, claiming I should've known it was one.

Even though I was seeing my daughter the next morning, she made me pack ALL my stuff up the night before, as she made it clear she didn't want me to have to come back after seeing my daughter. I then spend probably about an hour loading up all my stuff I had over there.

I made it clear how hurt I was, how it was not fair that she never added it to the list, how it was being blown WAY out of proportion, how she was throwing the relationship away again (after claiming yet again she wouldn't anymore). Yes, I said some nasty things, as I don't see my daughter much and I was VERY angry she was making me get very little sleep before getting time with her. But, that was after she already picked a fight, criticized me, broke up with me, and then insisted I pack up all my stuff right then and there.

I load all my stuff up in the car, get maybe 5hrs of sleep in total, get up, and she woke up shortly after. I asked to talk to her. She tried to avoid it at first, but then agreed. I said one sentence before she left the room. I was trying to make it clear I'm not going to try to get her back like I normally do, but I wanted to try to maintain a friendship while she was working on herself (she's aware she has issues and started actively working on them two weeks ago with a psychologist; only two sessions though, so they didn't cover much yet other than questions about her). After my first sentence, she then opens the bedroom door, walks out of it into the den right outside the room, and intentionally makes a scene in front of her daughter and daughter's boyfriend. I don't even remember what she said, as I was so embarrassed and appealed that she would use them as a meat shield like that. She knew I would not argue in front of the kids (although she obviously won't hesitate to drag them into it like that), so I just up and left.

She wouldn't listen to me that night. She put words into my mouth, insisted I had ill-intent with various things that weren't the case, and would talk over me any time I tried to say anything. So, she makes sure that you can't work on anything with her. I tried to do the speaker/listener technique, but she made it clear she didn't care and didn't want to hear what I had to say.

So, she essentially broke up with me AGAIN because I was upset we hadn't had quality time in two weeks and I felt blown off, and then asking how I stacked up against other men (and mainly just wanting to figure out whatever I could do to make her feel that way towards me, if anything of course). I felt this was extremely unfair. She kept blaming me for the way she felt. I told her she was the one making the choice to get angry rather than shrug it off, or with the time issue, reassuring me. But, she hates giving any kind of reassurance for some reason, and if you tell her you need some reassurance, she does the opposite - gets angry and pushes you away. She somehow expects me to assume she loves me oh so much, yet breaks up with me at the drop of a hat, and has done it more times in the last 11mos than I can even remember.

Sad thing is, I've been told I am wrong so many times now that at times, I believe her, despite no ex ever reacting like that to me. EVER. She DID have the same type of issues with her ex-husband, the man prior to me, but yet I was always seen as the problem in her eyes.

Maybe I shouldn't have complained. Maybe I should've just appreciated whatever time she was going to want to give me. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned other men. I don't feel it's fair to have a huge list of topics you can't talk about, because the person is too emotional to handle those topics. I was always walking on eggshells, dreading the next thing I'd say that I felt was harmless, but that she would get angry over due to negative assumptions.

What do you all think? Did I screw up here? Was it reasonable to have a list of topics you can't talk about? Was it wrong of me to say I was disappointed? I don't even know anymore. She says things that make me feel horrible for even thinking about certain things. Wanted to get your perspectives here?
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#1

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Feb 14, 2022 1:47 am

Ascendant78 wrote: I have very high standards, ones that she well more than meets and I told her numerous times, but she just dislikes that I "set the bar so high."

What do you all think? Did I screw up here? Was it reasonable to have a list of topics you can't talk about? Was it wrong of me to say I was disappointed? I don't even know anymore. She says things that make me feel horrible for even thinking about certain things. Wanted to get your perspectives here?


Two thoughts/observations/questions:

-1- What in the hell do you consider high standards? I mean, you write a chapter of all sorts of behaviors she does that puts her clearly below my standards and the standards of most well adjusted men. For instance, is not treating you with respect one of your standards?

I’m going to guess your “high standards” focus more on the physical/sexual than the emotional/intellectual.

-2- Stop focusing on her. Tell us what is wrong with you.

What type of person writes the above and is still confused as to whether or not they made the right decision? Who writes the above is still is asking, “Was I in the wrong”?

There is a disconnect. You have a major problem, but I’m not sure what exactly it might be as your posts are mostly about her behaviors. Do you struggle with self confidence? Do you not respect yourself? Have you struggled to date in the past? Do you suffer from White Knight syndrome?

I can’t put my finger on it, but you need help with you.

It’s like cases I would see where a husband would beat the hell out of his wife and she would ask, “Was I in the wrong?” Or she would rationalize reasons the husband was misunderstood. The obvious answer is NO, she wasn’t in the wrong. And the reasonable question is, “What is wrong with her?” And I mean, what is wrong with her ability to understand that she had the problem, that she needs to spend less time analyzing what is wrong with and trying to support the husband that beat her, and needs to focus 100% of her effort on figuring out what the hell is wrong with her for continuing to focus on the husband.

It’s an honest question/piece of advice. I think the only way you answer the question, “Was I in the wrong,” is by focusing 100% on what is wrong with you.
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#2

Postby Ascendant78 » Mon Feb 14, 2022 4:25 am

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
Ascendant78 wrote: I have very high standards, ones that she well more than meets and I told her numerous times, but she just dislikes that I "set the bar so high."

What do you all think? Did I screw up here? Was it reasonable to have a list of topics you can't talk about? Was it wrong of me to say I was disappointed? I don't even know anymore. She says things that make me feel horrible for even thinking about certain things. Wanted to get your perspectives here?


Two thoughts/observations/questions:

-1- What in the hell do you consider high standards? I mean, you write a chapter of all sorts of behaviors she does that puts her clearly below my standards and the standards of most well adjusted men. For instance, is not treating you with respect one of your standards?

I’m going to guess your “high standards” focus more on the physical/sexual than the emotional/intellectual.

-2- Stop focusing on her. Tell us what is wrong with you.

What type of person writes the above and is still confused as to whether or not they made the right decision? Who writes the above is still is asking, “Was I in the wrong”?

There is a disconnect. You have a major problem, but I’m not sure what exactly it might be as your posts are mostly about her behaviors. Do you struggle with self confidence? Do you not respect yourself? Have you struggled to date in the past? Do you suffer from White Knight syndrome?

I can’t put my finger on it, but you need help with you.

It’s like cases I would see where a husband would beat the hell out of his wife and she would ask, “Was I in the wrong?” Or she would rationalize reasons the husband was misunderstood. The obvious answer is NO, she wasn’t in the wrong. And the reasonable question is, “What is wrong with her?” And I mean, what is wrong with her ability to understand that she had the problem, that she needs to spend less time analyzing what is wrong with and trying to support the husband that beat her, and needs to focus 100% of her effort on figuring out what the hell is wrong with her for continuing to focus on the husband.

It’s an honest question/piece of advice. I think the only way you answer the question, “Was I in the wrong,” is by focusing 100% on what is wrong with you.


You were absolutely right here, as far as me being comparable to a wife asking if she was the one in the wrong. I can't believe I fell for it. I will explain why as I address your questions:

1) My standards have to do with character. Loving, affectionate, understanding, family-oriented, driven, independent, common core values, common interests, strong chemistry, touch is top love-language (or at least ONE of their top love languages), and the list goes on. I have a ton of criteria that someone needs to fulfill, or I won't have interest in them. She nailed EVERY single one on the head, at least in the beginning. And the part that was the most disheartening to me was that with EVERYONE else, she was affectionate, loving, understanding, kind, etc. It was ONLY me she treated horribly, which was a part of the reason why I wondered if it was me. But, none of my other exes NEVER treated me like this simply because I asked questions they didn't like. They'd just say "I don't want to talk about it" and we'd drop it. I NEVER had anyone else go into a rage over mere questions. Most people LIKE when you ask them questions, as it shows you want to get to know them. But, she is such a horrible person that she DOESN'T want you knowing her true colors, so she conceals as much as she can from you. Easier to control you that way.

2) There are a few things wrong with me. First is that growing up in an emotionally-abusive home as a kid, I build a VERY high tolerance to abuse. Yes, this is a BAD thing, but nonetheless something I had to do to survive as a child.

It's not so much about self-respect or self-esteem like you said. It was that she was VERY convincing. I mean like I said, she treated everyone else so great, but treated me like crap. It's hard to NOT think it's you in that instance. But, I realize now it's because she is only like this to a partner, not anyone else. Ironic that the person she should be the best with, she is the worst with.

Anyway, one of the things that would make it so convincing too was that she knew my emotional IQ is low. Very high IQ, but low emotional IQ. As such, I don't tend to pay attention to things like body gestures, tone of voice, etc. I just say things how they are, try to be as honest as I can, and if someone doesn't understand something I say or takes it the wrong way, I'm glad to clarify.

With that said, she would tell me despite what I claimed my intentions were when I said something, that my body language or tone indicated bad intentions. However, she'd do the same in texts as well, where there were no physical cues. Then, she'd blame it on how I'd word it. I would ask her that if she takes something in a negative way, to please let me know and give me a chance to clarify. But, that was too much to ask of her. She'd tell me "I shouldn't have to do that. You should pay more attention to how you word things and your gestures!" So, it was ALWAYS my fault for things I was doing that gave her cues I was lying. And then, there were her "gut" feelings, where if her "gut" told her I had bad intentions, nothing I say would convince her otherwise.

I even pointed out how it made no sense, as I was always trying to do things to make her happy. I love helping others, so I would do SO much to try to keep her happy. She even said at times actions speak louder than words. However, when I'd point that out, she'd say "I don't understand why you're so nice at times, but then so cruel at other times." She couldn't notice the huge dichotomy there. She always figured out a way to justify her anger, and she would seem so convincing that she convinced me a lot of the time.

3) You are absolutely right. I am comparable to a battered woman asking if it was her fault. I never thought someone could do that to me, but she had.

I knew I didn't deserve the abuse. I kept hoping that it was from past traumas she had been through, and that with counseling, she would heal those traumas and start trusting me. But, she refused to get counseling for the 11mos we tried being together. It wasn't until 2 weeks ago where she finally got a counselor. And it WASN'T for our relationship issues! It's because she is in a severe depression (which she of course blames me for). She is talking to the counselor about our problems too, but I'd imagine she's going to tell it in such a warped way and water down her abusive behaviors so much that the counselor won't give her useful information to help her. But who knows, maybe that counselor will be her wake up call as to how screwed up she is and how wrong what she did to me was.

Sadly, I think she will always seek to blame others. She claimed she was never like this in relationships until her ex-husband. But, first with him, now with me. It's either SEVERE trauma from him that she's in denial about, or she has been like this all her life and was just lying about it.

It's a shame, as who knows, with counseling, maybe she would fix it. Maybe the next guy won't have to deal with what I dealt with. Maybe if she did it months ago like I asked, we would be good. I mean EVERYTHING about us was amazing outside of the abuse. It was just impossible to avoid everything she wanted me to so that she wouldn't get upset. I'd never know what would set her off next. And to "not be allowed" to talk about various topics?! I knew that was seriously wrong, but I again humored her in hopes that the counselor would bring to her attention all the screwed up things she was doing.

Who knows, maybe the counselor will be her wake up call. Maybe it will take dating more men to see the pattern with them too. Maybe she will never see it. Maybe she will always abuse and blame others for her abusive behaviors.

I know I shouldn't be thinking about "what ifs," but I loved our good times so much that I am struggling to get her out of my head. I know I need to, but I never had the chemistry I had with her prior to that. But, maybe it was just an illusion. Maybe she just did a really good job at love-bombing. Maybe none of it was genuine, and I was just an idiot that fell for it. Her next victim. Just makes me sad that there is that possibility that with her counselor now, she might fix herself, not have these issues with the next person, and continue to believe it was my fault. I know it wasn't. I just wish she could see that.
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#3

Postby Richard@DecisionSkills » Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:10 pm

Ascendant78 wrote: Just makes me sad that there is that possibility that with her counselor now, she might fix herself…


If you fix yourself, then you will no longer find her attractive. If you fix yourself then the “high standards” you have set that failed you will become a different version of those standards. She won’t meet those new standards once you fix yourself.

In other words, the “high standards” you established were developed by your dysfunctional self. Your standards allowed an abuser to enter your life. Your standards failed to see the red flags.

Failure is okay. We all fail. Failure gives us the possibility to learn, to fix ourselves, to become a better version of ourselves. That is where you are in my opinion. You have an opportunity to focus on why you failed. Don’t waste the opportunity. Once you figure out why you failed, then you will no longer find her attractive and will be in a much better position for the next relationship.
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#4

Postby Ascendant78 » Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:00 pm

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:
Ascendant78 wrote: Just makes me sad that there is that possibility that with her counselor now, she might fix herself…


If you fix yourself, then you will no longer find her attractive. If you fix yourself then the “high standards” you have set that failed you will become a different version of those standards. She won’t meet those new standards once you fix yourself.

In other words, the “high standards” you established were developed by your dysfunctional self. Your standards allowed an abuser to enter your life. Your standards failed to see the red flags.

Failure is okay. We all fail. Failure gives us the possibility to learn, to fix ourselves, to become a better version of ourselves. That is where you are in my opinion. You have an opportunity to focus on why you failed. Don’t waste the opportunity. Once you figure out why you failed, then you will no longer find her attractive and will be in a much better position for the next relationship.


Thanks again for your insight. I again completely understand what you're saying.

For the most part, she exceeded my expectations in EVERY other aspect. That was why when she made promises of working on herself, I tried to give her a chance to do so. Her behavior WAS NOT acceptable to me, and I made her well aware of this on multiple occasions. But, it was a very subtle shift from her accepting accountability, to shifting the blame onto me.

There are a lot of things she does because of things going on in her subconscious. To my psychologist and me, it's clear as day. To her, she denies it and looks for outside sources to justify her unacceptable behaviors.

It was definitely a learning experience. I'm VERY self-aware, read tons of psychology, and yet I STILL had the wool pulled over my eyes. She really did convince me it was my fault she would yell at me. I mean it was still unacceptable, but she did convince me for quite a while. If someone keeps telling you something long enough, you start to believe it. One of the many lessons I learned, as soon as someone starts trying to tell you you're something you aren't, walk away immediately. It's just going to get worse as time goes on.

I just don't get how other men were with her for years and years, yet we couldn't even go months without breakups. That's a part of what made me question what I was doing wrong too. I know she was like this with her ex-husband too, but she blamed it on our personalities. But, I realize now there are so many things she has issues with that her trust issues will manifest with ANYONE. It would just be a matter of time before she'd be in one of her moods, takes something they say the wrong way, and she lashes out at them. I feel bad for her future victims, and I really do hope she gets the help she desperately needs with this counselor.
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