Needing therapy for one's therapy?

Postby pacific » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:59 pm

I often joke with my psychologist that I feel like I need therapy for my therapy... I suspect she thinks I'm joking.

I should probably say straight up that I have DID. And from my experience of this would agree most with things written about it (Paul F Dell for example) from the view of it being an attachment disorder.

Needless to say attachment causes plenty of problems in my therapy. I would say I am probably more attached to her than I would like, but she says attachment is necessary for trust and that I will gain "independence" as most children who experience "good enough parenting" would as they grow up.

I have young children who don't have a lot of understanding of words who are very attached to her. And others who really don't seem to understand any words at all who are terrified of her. So each week (I see her once a week) I go through this cycle which at least makes more sense as I come to understand myself better. At first the idea of the week is excruciating to the attachment based ones and their pain intrudes and can be quite overwhelming. As the week goes by though the fear based ones increase in strength. By the last couple of days of the week the attachment based ones start to relax while the fear based ones become very strong. I have no thought connection to them whatsoever. It is as if they are completely unaware of my current reality, of our life in 2011. Their fear comes out in my body - nausea, upset stomach, etc. And so as one lot of children relax, another lot (or one, I don't even know) experiences terror. And I can't reach them.

I am not here to defend my diagnosis, but to avoid any discussion of it if the above sounds weird I will say that as an older child and teenager I became very aware of my ability to "change people". I particularly thought it was a "clever skill" because it saved me from having people know what was going on. My final year of school I was going through a court case and nobody at school ever knew because the person who chatted to friends at school was not the same person as the person going through that. Similarly I was very aware of this "changing people" in an abusive situation where I would walk from a room with the abuser to another and "change" on the way to be the person they all knew. A "clever skill" perhaps, but also one which now (that I'm in my 30's) wreaks havoc in my life.

I really struggle with many aspects of therapy. The cycle I go through each week outside of it is hell to be honest. I am no longer likely to jump off a cliff thankfully (and sought therapy so that my children would get to grow up with a mother - I simply couldn't live anymore) and have made great progress in many areas of my life since starting therapy. My first abuser was my mother, and my therapist is a woman around my mother's age. Although when I first met her I was terrified I now think that this was probably what I needed most. Every week, unless I were to say no, she spends a couple of minutes sitting next to me, and the littlest of the children cry silently for a couple of minutes and sometimes older ones as well. Then the connection is restored, safety is restored and the session can continue.

But actually getting up the stairs to her office can be hell.

I guess there is more on safety I would like to ask, especially as many people here seem to be therapists themselves. But I am also a bit scared to be thought of as a maniac, so might stop here for now. If anyone can tell me whether I am actually supposed to allow this attachment (which feels so inappropriate to me) I would be grateful. It makes me feel crazy to be honest, to be so attached to a professional I see once a week. It frequently makes me want to quit, but I'm not sure the little kids could any more without significant distress and far worse issues waiting for the next therapist down the track... (surprisingly I made it to 34 years old without any therapy whatsoever, I've now been seeing this therapist for 20 months).

Anyway, thanks for any input on attachment and therapy
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#1

Postby jurplesman » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:01 am

Hi pacific,

Whatever is going certainly does not appear to be therapy. Therapy has an end game and where is it all leading to? Is this a kind of "talk therapy"? What is the aim of therapy, what are you trying to achieve? What are the symptoms?
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#2

Postby pacific » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:05 am

I'm not sure how much you know about (early childhood) trauma & dissociative disorders, but it surprises me to see someone who is a psychotherapist ask such a question.

Although I have no intention of being in therapy for the rest of my life, I do believe my therapist when she says that 21 years of abuse cannot be healed in one year. I'm hoping 5-8 years to be honest. The purpose of the therapy is to get me functioning as one person, instead of multiple people. It seems that in order to do that the various dissociated "parts" of me essentially need to get to know the memories, etc, held within each.

There is plenty of research backing this up (in fact it goes back to before Freud's time, but was then hushed up when he and his peers couldn't stand to believe that such abuse was really taking place in ordinary families - Freud himself retracted his theories upon discovering that one of his siblings had been abused by their father. If this sounds outlandish to you, go and look into it and find the proof for yourself.).

I hope some other therapists here with experience in trauma might have some input for me. I am here hoping for answers, not to explain my dissociative disorder.
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#3

Postby jurplesman » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:23 am

You and your therapist believe that your emotional disorders are due to past experiences in your childhood, in other words this is the psychoanalytic model of psychotherapy. I believe the psychoanalytic model is outmoded and ineffective and non-scientific.

In my opinion most mood disorders are primarily caused by biological abnormalities that need to be treated before addressing "psychological" issues. These biological issues are affecting your emotions in the here-and-now. So long you and your therapist keep on believing it is "psychological", you may be be under her spell for a long time to come. Good luck to you and your therapist.

Read:

Mental Illness is a Disease of Delusions
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#4

Postby pacific » Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:01 am

I cannot even begin to think of a way to reply to your bizarre notions. Is it common for you to tell people who have been raped multiple times during the course of their formative years that their sensory processing problems, nightmares and PTSD symptoms can evaporate into non-existence by eating the right foods?

Do you honestly believe that one child exposed to abuse and another in a home with "good enough" parents will have exactly the same thought processes if they consume the same diet? Seriously???

Is this an actual forum for people with any sort of interest in psychology or am I in the wrong place?
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#5

Postby miranda39 » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:24 pm

Hi pacific,

I can relate to some of what you're sharing.I don't know much about the condition you've been diagnosed with, though. You want to know if the attachment you're feeling to your therapist is 'right'/productive? I think many people do experience what you're experiencing now. I did.

I think the attachment is important, as she described to you. And also I had the weekly cycles and other holiday/break cycles. I was in therapy for 11 years and looking back it felt quite unbearable for a lot of it! And I've only been able to deal with real feelings for my therapist out of therapy....but using what I talked to her about, when I was with her. To me it was too threatening to process it then and I've needed time & space I didn't feel in therapy.

My advice woulod be to talk to others about your therapy-understanding friends/another counsellor/books/forums like this. The therapeutic relationship can really twist your mind!!

Miranda
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#6

Postby jurplesman » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:22 am

pacific wrote:I cannot even begin to think of a way to reply to your bizarre notions. Is it common for you to tell people who have been raped multiple times during the course of their formative years that their sensory processing problems, nightmares and PTSD symptoms can evaporate into non-existence by eating the right foods?


Any therapy including psychotherapy starts of from assumptions that you and your therapists share. It is quite understandable that you cannot understand how nutrition can affect emotions, because you have not been exposed to these theories or science. Nutritional therapy is an evidence-based science. It arose out of dissatisfaction with therapies based on drugs and/or psychotherapy that by studies have been shown to be quite useless to most people undergoing these kinds of therapies.

Psychonutritional therapy begins by analyzing silent diseases that are responsible for mood disorders and then at a later stage will look at "psychological" factors affecting personality. It is basically a here-and-now kind of therapy, that reject any psychoanalytical assumptions.

If you believe in the correctness of drugs and/or psychotherapy model, you will have a hard time accepting the psychonutritional model, which requires a mind-shift. If on the other hand you accept that the conventional model is not beneficial to you, then you are ready for looking at alternatives.

The choice is up to the client!
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#7

Postby DrNateOrdie » Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:11 pm

I am with you pacific,I know my issues came from my childhood.I know hundreds of people who have been through the same things you have,alot of those people are very very close friends of mine.I felt close to my counselor ( who was female).For me i was attached because it seemed that she was the first person to actually care about me and give me some direction.She was kind of a mother figure.To be honest she was the mom i never had.I revisited painful memories with her i shared my heart and soul with her.I think it is normal to feel attached.You probably dont like to feel attached because you fear someday your therapy will end.Someday the person you spent all this time with, discussing your deepest fears and most personal thoughts with will be gone.This was a big issue for me.It reminded me of being abandoned by my mom when i was a child. Does this help?
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#8

Postby jurplesman » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:12 am

But you dependence on a mother-like counsellor are simply signs that the real cause of your mood disorders are not addressed. You feel good after having seen your mother-counsellor, but need to return for more strokes after a while. Hence such kind of counselling is merely a management technique without addressing the real issues.

It is always easy for anybody with mood disorders to trace their mood disorders to their childhood and then claim that that their childhood traumas are the cause of their adult mood disorders. The reality is that NOW you are an adult and supposedly responsible for your mood disorders . Without addressing the physiological aspects or the biochemical aspects of your mood disorders you are not going to feel well, despite the mothering you receive from your counsellor.
Biochemistry before psychology!
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#9

Postby DrNateOrdie » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:15 am

I have not seen a counselor in years.So these strokes you speak of ..not sure.I understand you have your beliefs and i have mine .I know one thing, i am happier in my life now than i have ever been and i believe it is because i contantly express my feelings and talk about things that bother me.Ei present and past .I have delt with alot a grief and guilt from my mother leaving and a best friend i lost to a drug overdose to which i supplied the drugs.I now recognize negative core beliefs the instant they pop into my head,i evaluate where they stem from and what i get out of using them..then replace them with a possitive belief..all of these things are things i do and help me...i was simply offering advice to pacific not trying to debate with you..but thank you for your advice and point of view.
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#10

Postby jurplesman » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:12 am

My reply was mainly aimed at pacific.
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