Rapid elicitation of unconscious symbolism

Why 10 minutes? Why not 30 seconds?

Hi Richard,

That would be awesome. Can you help?

Sure, like any process just break down the component parts and work on refining those aspects of the process. For instance, identification of the core issue is one component, identification of unconscious symbolism would be a second component. Whatever sub-processes occur in the larger components can also be reduced.

Still, why 10 minutes? Was that just a random time you picked or was there some logic to wanting to get the process under 10 minutes?

Thanks. 10 minutes was an arbitrary number. I want to do it as quickly as possible.

How do I get the client to tell me the core issue when he is [often] unaware of it consciously? I don't trust clients' conscious reports since ego defense mechanisms will often be blocking and repressing useful material. I want to go deep, as rapidly as possible, preferably without the client knowing what's going on. I'm keen to bypass defense mechanisms and use conversational and other indirect methods.

Could you give me an example of how you might do this please? I think that might help me understand better what you're saying.

bump........Anyone, please?

You are the SME.

Don't look to other SME's to figure out a solution. If under 10 minutes was the norm the "how to" would be posted all over the Internet.

If 30 seconds was the norm it too would be plastered everywhere.

I don't know your underlying motivation as you picked 10 minutes out of thin air. Is it an ego issue, you want to be seen as "the best"? Is it a money thing, you calculated 10 minutes equals X return? Or is it simply an ignorance thing, where you lack the knowledge of what is really important?

I don't know why you feel it is so important to reduce the time. Typically people go from selling 10 minute abs to 6 minute abs to 30 second abs as a combination of ego and monetary gain, being the best ab routine in the world.

Regardless of your motivation, the fact the answer is not plastered all over the Internet means you need to look outside the SME's and take my advice. Use Six Sigma or Lean Manufacturing, use CPI and reduce the process to component parts. If you want to bypass the defense mechanism, then focus only on that component for now. Reduce the time it takes, then move to the next component.

Bottom line, you are bumping a thread for an answer no one can give you. If there is some secret sauce, hidden from the search engines of the World Wide Web, you will not find it here.

I have told you the solution.

I want to be the best of the best. This will allow me to aquire a very high status and income. All good.

Most therapists go for weeks/months/years never getting to core issues. This costs the patient dearly, in dollar terms and in suffering.

Lots of very good reasons to find out how to do this.

Yes, all good.

So why post in an obscure forum if the answer is not readily on the Internet? Do you really think someone will just offer up an answer not readily available and then only you and a handful of others will have this ability?

It is good to try to learn from others, but you throw out 10 minutes and then qualify to not tell you it can't be done. How would you know?

I want to run a mile in less than 5 seconds, and don't tell me it can't be done. I arbitrarily chose 5 seconds. It serves no purpose. If I do achieve 5 seconds, how long before I am no longer the best of the best if I plaster how I accomplished such a feat all over the web?

If I were you, I would find one or three good mentors. Learn from them, study what they do and then try to improve upon their techniques. If they can do it in 45 minutes, then see how you can improve. At least then it has some basis and is not some random criteria.

Network in your field of expertise, build from the work that already exists.

Network in his field of expertise, and build from the work that already exists? It seems to me that's exactly what he was trying to do, until he was told that he wouldn't find the answer on an obscure internet forum.

What I do is I put the client into trance, then I ask to speak to the unconscious mind, then I ask the unconscious mind to send the conscious mind away into a pleasant memory while we talk.

The client has usually come to you with a symptom, and it's your job to figure out the cause -- the core issue. So start with the symptom and keep asking why.

"What is causing her to stress?"
"Expectations and beliefs."
"What expectations and beliefs?"
"The belief that she has to make everyone happy and do what they want to do more than what she wants to do. The expectations of her friends, her teachers, and her mother."

Sometimes it's straightforward like that. Sometimes you'll have to keep questioning until you hit a loop:

"Why does she feel like she's stupid?
"Because she fails at everything."
"Why does she feel like she fails at everything?"
"Because she's stupid."

When you hit a loop like that, you're at the core.

Now you've asked how you identify the unconscious symbolism. Usually I wouldn't even work with symbolism here. What I'd instead do is ask why she's not letting go of that belief, or how the belief is benefiting her. So, for example, the belief that she's stupid might exist because as long as she believes that she's too stupid to do anything, she doesn't have to try -- it's saving her the effort of trying, and the pain of failure. Then that knowledge can help you to get her to let go of it.

"This belief is keeping her from ever succeeding at anything, isn't it?"
"Yes."
"And having that potential to be successful in life would help her far more than the safety she gets from not needing to try, wouldn't it?"
"Yes."
"So it would be better for her to let go of this belief now, wouldn't it?"
"Yes."
"Is she ready to let go of this belief now?"
"No."
"What is stopping her from letting go of this belief now?"

And keep on like that. Basically just walk the client through all objections, and whenever she has a reason to not change, help her to find an even better reason to change.

But you asked about symbolism. Even though I don't do it in instances like this, it's easy to guide the mind into giving you symbols. It might look like this:

"So you're feeling a lot of anger, right?"
"Yes."
"The neat thing about emotion is the way we feel it in our bodies. Quadriplegics report feeling less emotion after their spinal injuries because they can't feel their bodies anymore. And you see this in language too -- we talk about having a lump in the throat, or butterflies in the stomach, or a pain in the neck. Where do you feel this anger?"
"In my face, and my shoulders and my arms."
"And if you could take that anger out of you and look at it, what color would it be?"
"It's red."

So your client has basically told you that anger is a red energy in their face, shoulders, and arms. Now you can manipulate that red energy to have an effect on the anger.

saladinsmith wrote:Network in his field of expertise, and build from the work that already exists? It seems to me that's exactly what he was trying to do, until he was told that he wouldn't find the answer on an obscure internet forum.

Yes, I understand that is what he is trying to do. This forum is a high effort, low yield resource for him, hence the advice to go network where his effort is more likely to get rewarded.

Thanks salad. Some excellent, practical material there.

If you think of anything extra to add regarding symbolism, can you please add to the thread? My main reason for wanting to know about symbolism is that clients often hide the core issue unless they feel a very deep level of trust (they dont trust themselves often times, as well as me). So rather than spend 5 sessions building that trust, I'd like to be able to access and de-code these symbols in the first session.

I listen for 'Freudian slips' as we speak, but I'd like a way to elicit such symbolism quickly and accurately.

Regards

Oh, I see what you're saying. Look up kokology, dream interpretation, psychological profiling, and cold/warm reading. And even then, you might have to discover a lot of the symbols you're looking for on you own.

Also, don't expect any one symbol to be anywhere near 100% accurate. For example, for many people the house could be seen as a symbol of the self or the personality, but a foster child may have spent their formative years in a number of different houses, never being able to identify with any of them, so for them the house would mean something completely different. So watch for multiple symbols that agree with each other.

saladinsmith wrote:
Also, don't expect any one symbol to be anywhere near 100% accurate. For example, for many people the house could be seen as a symbol of the self or the personality, but...

So watch for multiple symbols that agree with each other.

Which takes time. Time must be spent extracting each symbol, comparing across multiple symbols, finding agreement between symbols, and trying to do so with a high degree of accuracy in under 10 minutes.

Thanks again salad.

Dream interpretation looks like a good option for me to look into.