is career counseling useless?

**Posts:** 164 · by **whiterabbit** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:20 pm

I contacted a couple of therapists because I wanted to work on my self-esteem as a professional. It's not career coaching because it's related to self-esteem. Both therapists claimed to do career counseling in my particular industry, and also help with self-esteem. The first one miscommunicated right away (I asked about apples, she explained about oranges) and I didn't go with her.

I had 1.5 sessions with the second one and don't plan to continue. I guess, I'm ok with her personally, but... I rather don't see a reason continuing. It's 1.5 sessions because she forgot to put me on her calendar for the first session; I showed up but she had another patient in 20 minutes. So, she gave me a free 20 minutes session for me to tell about my situation. I thought I covered pretty much everything within those 20 minutes. But the next session was me talking again for an hour. It's like, I didn't know what else to do, because every time I decided to stop, she would just sit and look at me, and I felt awkward. She would nod at things I said, and make this "listening" expression on her face. She talked very little, and very trivial things, and kind of outdated and prejudiced. I got an impression she had no clue about the current state of my industry, as I talked about things assuming she would be familiar with. I previously sent her a link, she didn't mention reading it. I'm really not into spending my own money to educate her during sessions. In the end she said it'd been good for me to take all of it from my chest. It reminded me of the therapist I dropped after the first session years ago, who said "you pay to me because you have nobody to talk to". Both were wrong, I have plenty of people to talk to, both offline and online. I was seeking something more professional. Don't they have tests and tools for career counseling? All this "talking-listening" stuff... doesn't internet render it useless? Anybody can go online and talk about their problems, and find readers, instead of paying to somebody to listen.

So the question is, should I try to look for somebody else or drop it all together? The biggest problem I foresee is the context: people don't bother to get to know the industry they provide counseling in.

**Posts:** 36 · by **LukeChao** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:34 am

If you do decide to resume counselling, you should tell your counsellor everything you told us. Different clients want different things--many people really do just want somebody to listen to them and nod sympathetically--and your counsellor won't know what you want out of the sessions unless you tell them.

**Posts:** 164 · by **whiterabbit** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:01 pm

LukeChao wrote:If you do decide to resume counselling, you should tell your counsellor everything you told us. Different clients want different things--many people really do just want somebody to listen to them and nod sympathetically--and your counsellor won't know what you want out of the sessions unless you tell them.

Well, but I don't know WHAT they should do. It's like I go to a doctor, and tell them "in my case you should prescribe me this procedure". If I'm expected to do this, they do sound useless as a professional.

I told her what bothered me even before any sessions, but she didn't present me with any plan or idea how she would address it. I even sent her a link to introduce her better to this particular problem, and wanted to send more. She didn't know the problem and the terminology, and wasn't really interested, and I felt that I was pushing it.

I performed some research and wasn't happy about her [low] rating by another patient but decided to try anyway. Also, she works 2 jobs... (the other one unrelated), seems to be extremely busy day and night, and would get to her email around or after midnight. I had experience being self-employed myself, and I had to spend my own time for self-education and preparations, not the time on the client's side. I felt that the "keep talking" protocol was letting me down. When I was sitting in the lobby, I heard somebody else having a session, and they talked interchangeably, not like a monologue in my case.

**Posts:** 36 · by **LukeChao** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:21 pm

Well, it sounds to me like there isn't a good fit here. The few times I've been to career counselling, the counsellor asked a lot of questions and provided some insights. Some counsellors might do personality testing and make suggestions based on that. So if you're doing all the talking, and your counsellor isn't responding to your cues about what you're looking for, I'd look for a different career counsellor.

**Posts:** 164 · by **whiterabbit** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:38 pm

LukeChao wrote: The few times I've been to career counselling, the counsellor asked a lot of questions and provided some insights. Some counsellors might do personality testing and make suggestions based on that.

Thank you! Was it useful for you to go through it?

My own situation is not that I want to change a career, but self-esteem and motivation problems. I told her a number of "I ran into THIS situation and it made me feel bad and demotivated" (all similar situations). I would rather expect "let's work on what motivates you", but it was more like "yeah, this is bad, keep talking".

**Posts:** 36 · by **LukeChao** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:22 am

whiterabbit wrote:Thank you! Was it useful for you to go through it?

I had a few sessions when I was in university, and wasn't sure what I wanted to do with my life. I think it was helpful, but not completely life-changing. It was helpful to hear another person affirm that I should be doing what I wanted to do, and not what my parents wanted.

My own situation is not that I want to change a career, but self-esteem and motivation problems. I told her a number of "I ran into THIS situation and it made me feel bad and demotivated" (all similar situations). I would rather expect "let's work on what motivates you", but it was more like "yeah, this is bad, keep talking".

It's possible that a career counsellor isn't the right type of professional to see. From what you've written, it sounds like a therapist trained in cognitive-behavioural therapy would be able to give you actionable advice based on the situations you've encountered.

**Posts:** 164 · by **whiterabbit** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:45 am

LukeChao wrote:From what you've written, it sounds like a therapist trained in cognitive-behavioural therapy would be able to give you actionable advice based on the situations you've encountered.

I picked this therapist exactly because she was trained in CBT.

I just think, it was a bad idea for me to get a motivational advice from somebody who's quite unmotivated professionally, other then to keep money coming.

**Posts:** 61 · by **Hovehypnotherapist** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:42 am

If you are looking to change and improve your self esteem and motivation then that's all about your behaviour and the emotions attached to that. So the type of therapy suited would be more solution focused like hypnotherapy, EFT, NLP. The fact that it's work related is irrelevant really as that is just the context. As a hypnotherapist I am currently helping someone who is in almost exactly the same position as you.

**Posts:** 124 · by **jordan.s** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:46 pm

It sounds as if she's not totally present when she's with you, being late, rushing, etc. This is not the type of professional you need. I wouldn't say career counseling is a waste of time simply because of this one counselor. I would explore other options, just as you might in your career as well. Although you do have people around you to help in your decision process, a neutral figure in your life may be what you need to give you unbiased advice. The best of luck!

**Posts:** 164 · by **whiterabbit** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:36 am

Hovehypnotherapist wrote:So the type of therapy suited would be more solution focused like hypnotherapy, EFT, NLP.

She was offering it "solution based".

Thanks, I do know a good hypnotherapist in the area. However, I fret using anything that's [strong enough] hypnotherapy for motivation purposes, I had bad experience with that before. And I doubt that a weaker version would be helpful.

**Posts:** 164 · by **whiterabbit** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:29 am

jordan.s wrote:It sounds as if she's not totally present when she's with you, being late, rushing, etc. This is not the type of professional you need. I wouldn't say career counseling is a waste of time simply because of this one counselor. I would explore other options, just as you might in your career as well. Although you do have people around you to help in your decision process, a neutral figure in your life may be what you need to give you unbiased advice. The best of luck!

I wish there was a neutral figure in my life that was interested to listen me out...

My self-esteem problem is that I have (I would call it) a "split self-esteem". I see myself as a very capable professional in my own eyes and a motivated personality, but when I try to look at myself from outside (somebody's else eyes), then I just... don't see anything. Such as I'm invisible. It's the vibes I get from people around me. The same as with this therapist, I failed to get her attention. She even forgot to bill me... (I sent her a check myself). As I'm (still) looking for a job, I get tons of messages from recruiters and employers, except... this is spam they send without reading my stuff - my ad, my resume, cover letter and such. They disregard even my location, not to mention what I look for. I don't even reply anymore. When I had interviews, my interviewers didn't show up, were late, didn't follow up etc, i.e. following the same pattern as the therapist. It's not about lack of jobs, there is actually shortage of people with my skills, I would have like 7 interviews in one week and recruiters pushing for more. Even my husband doesn't seem to notice me being in trouble. They say, don't criticize your unemployed spouse. I would prefer to be criticized then to be ignored. I tried to talk to him, how I feel about it, many times... in vain, like he doesn't hear me. Can anybody argue that I'm invisible?

**Posts:** 164 · by **whiterabbit** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:42 am

To add to it (so there is no misunderstanding). It's not related to a crappy resume, lack of credentials or bad interviewing skills. Those were verified multiple times to be very good.

**Posts:** 1 · by **brianachievepeak** » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:43 am

By taking a career Aptitude Testing, it will be really hard & able to gather some idea as to what we want to do with the rest of life.

**Posts:** 124 · by **jordan.s** » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:35 pm

Just about all of us have tried to find a job through what we think and feel as the most convenient way to find a job - the internet. Turns out, as you are experiencing, it can be more time consuming and irrelevant than what you sought out for. Although it may be difficult, seeking out connections is often the best way to land a job you like: networking. It is the best way to get a job. Explore! Meet someone! Who knows, they might help you find a job or help you realize this career field or that career field is not for you.

**Posts:** 164 · by **whiterabbit** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:12 am

jordan.s wrote:Just about all of us have tried to find a job through what we think and feel as the most convenient way to find a job - the internet. Turns out, as you are experiencing, it can be more time consuming and irrelevant than what you sought out for. Although it may be difficult, seeking out connections is often the best way to land a job you like: networking. It is the best way to get a job. Explore! Meet someone! Who knows, they might help you find a job or help you realize this career field or that career field is not for you.

For the record, I did try it. My connections either ignore me, or, worse, backstab. People have to remember about me when something comes their way, but I don't seem to be a person to remember and help. Somebody recommended me for a position, and then they got a friend applying to it... (of course, it wasn't me chosen). Somebody mentioned in a professional group that her company was hiring, and I asked her to pass my resume. OK, her boss was impressed and really wanted to hire me, but she cut into my interviewing and convinced him not to. Then her acquaintance in the community wanted to hire me, she "helped" her not to hire me as well. After that, I couldn't even contact people in the group anymore, she knew many people there and I was a new person. God knows what she was saying about me behind my back, but I heard her gossiping about somebody else (which cost a contract to that person).

Besides that, I had to reconsider my friendships a few years back. I made a web site, a quite complex one. I fist decided to contact some friends asking for help to get a feedback. I was prepared that they would be critical, would not like the design, would find parts not working. I wasn't prepared to what happened - they ignored me. Everybody! I asked one friend why, and he said he wasn't interested (i.e. to help me). I tried to elaborate, he interrupted and started talking to another person (and he's not usually a rude guy). I was so angry that I didn't talk for a while to him and some other people but it didn't seem to bother them. Even after a few years I still feel bad. It was so discouraging, I never tried to market the site to a larger audience.

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