Doing this in an effort to change.

Model your behavior after a drill sergeant, coach, or educator. Find a good role model. Adopt techniques they use to instill discipline.

Discipline your son.

It will be tough to reverse the lessons he has already learned. He currently believes anger is the appropriate behavior. He sees you and your wife fighting and yelling and that teaches him.

Coaches, educators, leaders use command presence to instill discipline. Why not you?

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:Model your behavior after a drill sergeant, coach, or educator. Find a good role model. Adopt techniques they use to instill discipline.

Discipline your son.

It will be tough to reverse the lessons he has already learned. He currently believes anger is the appropriate behavior. He sees you and your wife fighting and yelling and that teaches him.

Coaches, educators, leaders use command presence to instill discipline. Why not you?

Hi Richard,

Don't you think that 'Coaches, Educators, Leaders' use a kind of institutional duress to get their way. For instance, kids have to listen to the coach and obey or they will get kicked off the team, right? Educators have the weight of the entire institution on their side. Children are conditioned to obey teachers. But,yes, some Teachers experience more riots than other teachers, but all that might simply be in proportion to how much they can convince the Children that they have the full weight of the Institution behind them. Then, in most cases your generic "leaders" are also being supported by some kind of Institutional Duress. So what I believe you are really asking for is that this Dad set up some imposing form of Duress in his own household. That is usually done with a System of Rewards and Punishments. Obey and Good Things Happen, or disobey and Bad Things will happen. Oh, one thing one needs to be careful about, in establishing this kind of control is that one's Object, the intended Follower or Obeyer, well, he or she may try to forgo the whole Reward or Punishment Construct and try to simply escape. Their REWARD might be to just be able to make it out the door.

In the case of our Poster, who has a history of really flipping out. Well, if the child is paying any attention at all, then he will understand the danger of engaging with such an unstable and dangerous Father. So perhaps the only leverage the Father really has now is to set up a deal where "If you do what I want, I will stay out of your way". You might notice that in the case of a lot of your exemplary leaders, their followers follow a strategy of trying to minimize interaction... to do enough that is expected so that they can achieve a kind of invisibility, which is kind of escaping by what they call "flying under the radar".

I am seeking advice on how to manage my anger. Both of these replies are a sucker punch to the gut and perhaps that’s what I need. But some constructive advice on emotional regulation would be great. Thanks.

Onlyhuman2142 wrote: But some constructive advice on emotional regulation would be great. Thanks.

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Hi OnlyHuman,

Okay, you know how bad all of this is, right? Now is the time for damage control. Your wife, well, we know what her instincts are here. She thinks she should split, do a “Lucille”, and leave both you and her son who apparently is often difficult. Oh, I would not ‘bet the farm’ that she is staying with you out of love. Just think about her options. Does she have any? I am guessing that if she had a sizeable credit limit and a good chance of picking up a good job quick in a new town, she would be gone. You know, she is right about you being bad for your son. Look at what you did. Already confronted with a situation in which you had the conscious realization that Anger was a big problem, well, you just took it up a notch by taking about $500 resale value off your car, and giving your wife a terrifying memory that will last her a lifetime. Yes, we can work with your Rage Anger, but even in a best case scenario, you will be an Angry Man for another six months before we can depend on even intense Anger Management Work to kick in and show reliable results. But most people don’t do the work. (Really, my advice to people who are stuck in Relationships with an Angry Person is to ASSUME that the Angry Person will continue to be Angry. Even if they should decide to seek help, well, it would be a great time to live separately for a while… sign a year lease for somewhere else. Anger is not cured overnight.

But, yes, what are we looking at here? Is the son so troublesome that your wife could not care for him alone, but would still need you to be on hand, despite the fact that she would be accepting a huge risk (remember, to her it may seem like there is a 20% chance that you could really snap and kill both her and her son). Couldn’t you guys check on line and find out if there are Single Mothers with children out there, and that it might be feasible to move into one place and the Ladies could be supportive of each other. You’re contribution could be financial. Really, any situation with you being there would kind of be the Nightmare Scenario. If you have any resources at all, you should think of a way to get your Wife and Son into a supportive environment, and you someplace else.

But, okay, let’s assume that we have to go with the Nightmare Scenario, where your wife and your son have to sleep with one eye open because they are afraid you will flip out and kill them, well, I do have a Trick for Rage Anger. You can read the last thread from BODACIOUS and many of the other threads where my name is prominent. You see, what fuels Rage Anger is Cortisol which is pumped out by a gland in the brain, and it in turn switches on adrenaline. Now, what Cortisol in the Brain does is it actually SHUTS DOWN the higher functions, and that is why one actually does LOSE CONTROL. Yes, there remains a Kind of Control, which is a kind of an Animal Inhibition regarding overstepping one’s range. For instance, men who are in a State of Rage still show some restraint if it is likely that other Large Males might step in and kick their butt. So, yeah, while there is a FEAR that you could kill your wife, it is not likely because even in RAGE there are levels of Inhibition. But apparently you have no problem with extensive property damage and acting like a madman. Anyway, the TRICK in regards to Cortisol is that, even before you are aware that you have reason to be Angry (before it kicks in that you have been insulted or whatever) the VERY FIRST SIGN that Cortisol is being released is that your Jaw Muscles will tighten up (BODACIOUS tells me that he experiences a general tensing of muscle groups). The Trick is to IMMEDIATELY loosen the Jaw muscles, breath through you mouth and shake it off. If you can do that IMMEDIATELY then the CORTISOL RAGE REACTION WILL NOT TAKE PLACE. Really, if you think back to typical Rage Episodes, well, you clench your teeth, tighten your fists, raise your voice (everyone ALWAYS begins to Cuss and Swear), and really engage in a great deal of Muscle Flexing and Tensing. It is like saying “GO GO GO”. But, if one catches the FIRST Sign of Cortisol and relaxes right then and there, then you can shut it all down.

The Trick works. More than a few people have tried it and reported that it works. But, yes, it would also help if you were to buy the best books on Anger Management and learn how to re-condition your habitual behaviors and thought patterns so that you can avoid getting ‘Triggered’ in the first place.

Of course, I don’t believe in miracles. Really, anybody with a Degree could have looked at your family setup and realized that it is a huge problem waiting to happen. Nuclear Families living in isolation has never been how Humans were meant to get along. In evolutionary terms, Women and Children have their own Compounds and the Men just show up for Dinner and Entertainment and then go back to the Card Game on the Guys’ side of the Camp. You should never have been caught in this situation where you were expected to Baby Sit like a Stand In Woman. Your Wife should never have been expected to do all this work alone. Human Beings need Living Social Support. The Smallest Social Unit is NOT the Individual, and is NOT the Family. It is the Social Group which is usually from about 50 to 150 people (we know that from studies in which people can manipulate about that many Names and Faces before confusion sets in). So, yeah, maybe you could move your little Family into a Commune or something. But, yeah, I know, that is not very likely. You will have to live in isolation with your wife and son and do the best you can. You know, if you had a good enough job, your wife would probably think that she would prefer Child Support Payments to having you there frightening her (oh, by the way, the Biggest Problem with People who ARE ABLE to Cure their Anger, is that they can never re-establish Trust. People will always be waiting for your Next Blow Up. The Fix for This is to Start Fresh somewhere. And you would be a far happier man by yourself if you could cure your anger and then go somewhere where you are seen as some Nice Guy…. But most guys only leave one woman to immediately get caught up with another, and so for their entire lives they never know what True Happiness is (unless they can manage to blockade themselves into their Libraries or Work Shops, or Studios and find their Peace and Quiet that way. But most women reassign any empty room to themselves, and their men will go through life thinking they are Happily Married but can’t quite put a finger on why they feel so miserable.

Leo Volont wrote: That is usually done with a System of Rewards and Punishments. Obey and Good Things Happen, or disobey and Bad Things will happen.

Yes, raising a child involves obedience. So what?

The family is an institution, the community is an institution.

Yes, coaches, educators, leaders, use various forms of leverage to shape behavior. A positive/negative system of reinforcement is used to coach, to educate, to lead. This is supported at an institutional level. So what?

That is life Leo. It is not wrong.

It is how our species navigates the world as we move from apprentice to journeyman to master in a given field of expertise. This is not accomplished without discipline. It is not accomplished through non-institutional exploratory play.

Currently the dad is performing like a novice, unskilled, untrained, uneducated parent. He is throwing tantrums in front of his son. Therefore, the son throws tantrums. The son is undisciplined, because his father lacks discipline.

How does the father improve his parenting skills? How does the father become more disciplined?

One of the most common ways we learn is through modeling the behavior of others. We move from apprentice to master by finding a mentor, a role model. Coaches, educators, and leaders are often times good role models.

Obedience is not always bad Leo.

I am amazed at how much people have been able to draw from my post about me and my family. Incredible.

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:

Leo Volont wrote: That is usually done with a System of Rewards and Punishments. Obey and Good Things Happen, or disobey and Bad Things will happen.

Yes, raising a child involves obedience. So what?

The family is an institution, the community is an institution.

Yes, coaches, educators, leaders, use various forms of leverage to shape behavior. A positive/negative system of reinforcement is used to coach, to educate, to lead. This is supported at an institutional level. So what?

That is life Leo. It is not wrong.

It is how our species navigates the world as we move from apprentice to journeyman to master in a given field of expertise. This is not accomplished without discipline. It is not accomplished through non-institutional exploratory play.

Currently the dad is performing like a novice, unskilled, untrained, uneducated parent. He is throwing tantrums in front of his son. Therefore, the son throws tantrums. The son is undisciplined, because his father lacks discipline.

How does the father improve his parenting skills? How does the father become more disciplined?

One of the most common ways we learn is through modeling the behavior of others. We move from apprentice to master by finding a mentor, a role model. Coaches, educators, and leaders are often times good role models.

Obedience is not always bad Leo.

Hi Richard,

You are right. Good and Bad have nothing to do with it. The World is the World. We got to take what we got. But, yeah, I keep my fingers crossed for the Revolution, but we see how that is working. History is sort of showing us that at just the National Level, Fascism is more successful than Socialism, and that by the time Foreign Intervention comes to the rescue and overcomes the Fascism, well, all the Socialists are dead, and then the Foreign Interventionists, well, hand everything back to the original Capitalists so that the cycle can start all over again. BUT, my response to your original statement was to suggest that your "Role Models" were coming up intrinsically short, and that calling them "Role Models" is in almost every case extremely misleading. Yes, these people can be Role Models, but most the time they simply Represent the System of Terror (as you say, Obedience) which is designed to keep them in line. I went through the system: Schools, College, the Army, Career.... and I can count the number of Role Models I have encountered on my fingers. Most people placed over me were simply System Shills. Richard, you must know. The Big Bosses mostly select Middle Level Leadership NOT because they have Charismatic Leadership skills, but because they are docile, submissive and no threat to their own Leadership Ambitions. Really, most Corporate Cultures (every Company grows their own twisted variant) are built on levels of Submissive Incompetence (as it is rare to have a combination of Intelligent Self Assured Competence mixed with Submissive Butt-Kissing fawning).

But, there are Different Schools on how to raise children. Yes, Richard, your method of beating children into submission and making them Fear Authority and bow to the System is probably the best thing you can do for a child's career prospects, IF they are to be caught in the Middle or the Bottom ends of the Corporate Structure, you know, the "Foot Soldiers", the "Rank and File". But if you raise the little brat to be Self Reliant, Fearless, Assertive, then, if the kid should be lucky with Office Politics (forming Alliances with Bigger Bosses to destroy immediate Bosses, and that kind of thing. It reminds me of a story my brother told me. He became a lawyer and was taken into this one Law Firm, because one of the Old Partners favored him, and, well, he was taken into the Old Guy's Office and was being brought into a Plot to "Restructure" the Partnership which would involve my brother stabbing one of the other partners in the back. My brother did not get wholeheartedly involved and so it was HIS Protector who lost in the Restructuring and was forced out, and of course my brother lost his job. The Old Guy would have brought my Brother into his New Firm, but, why, since he had proved so useless when push came to shove? Okay, given that Situation, what would have worked best for my brother?... being a Ruthless Selfish Brat that had always gotten its own way, or being timid and awed by authority, so much so that he couldn't even back-stab a Little Boss when the Big Boss had his back and was urging him on. Really, Richard, your Way of Obedience and Subjugation has a lid on it. You can only go so far in a World where you are afraid of the System and just trying to get along. I would rather take some crap from my children so that they will have half a chance of REALLY making something of themselves someday. Yes, you and I are Losers, but we can raise our children to be better than that, can't we?

Onlyhuman2142 wrote:I am amazed at how much people have been able to draw from my post about me and my family. Incredible.

Hi OnlyHuman, Really!? Usually we get a lot of stuff wrong. But, well, we have to start somewhere, and so we start with our Best Guesses, and we use that to establish some momentum. And then, if the Original Poster actually continues on in the process, when it is more likely that they wrote in during a moment of desperation, which didn't seem so bad the next day, and so they never bother getting back to us, but, yes, if the Original Poster check back with us, then there is a lot of clarification that takes place. BUT, we typically are all set out going in roughly the right direction. But it is not uncommon to get a heck of a lot of stuff flat wrong.

Oh, in this regards, you must resist us superimposing ideas and attitudes into your head. This is what a lot of Psychoanalysts do. They tell people what they must be thinking with their Unconscious Minds. Well, that is Bull Crap. Now, yes, you MIGHT have some Unconscious Stuff going on, BUT if that is true and we mention it, THEN you will feel a kind of recognition... it will make a little bit of sense to you. But if we tell you something, and it has NO RESONATION within you at all, then it probably means we are going in the wrong direction, and don't hesitate to mention it.

Oh, Onlyhuman, well, what did you think of my Reply. What about the Cortisol Trick? Do you have a Computer or are you stuck with answering us with your Thumbs on the telephone. Hmmmm, maybe people with phones will finally be able to open up and tell us Stuff when they perfect Text By Voice (so they can use their voice to do what only people that are proficient on QWERTY Keyboards can do now.

But, yeah, Onlyhuman, we can only help you if we have your input. though, I guess if you took five or six hours to read down the posts, you would likely find the full range of advice that you could hope to get individually. You see, you can imagine that YOUR particular crisis would not be much different from many of the other crises. People write in when their Relationships are threatened, or when their Careers are threatened. What surprises me is that I have not seen the FIRST person write in to us who isn't Angry him or her self, but wishes to discuss the Anger of somebody who is close to them. What THIS tells me is that people who SUFFER the anger of Angry People see that Anger as a FIXED CHARACTER TRAIT. They can't even imagine that there is any HELP for it. As I said in my other post, in all of your efforts at Damage Control, what probably has been most seriously and irrevocably damaged is your Reputation. Everyone who has seen you get Angry will always for now on be wary of you. It is sad to think of it like this, but all the People who have witnessed you getting angry are now Damaged Goods -- you broke something in them, as far as you are concerned.

I wish we had a Universal Income. Guys in your predicament, could go into isolation for a year or two, perhaps enrolled into some program that specializes in Anger Management (a place where you can safely get Angry in the few years it takes to Conquer your Anger). and then you could MOVE somewhere and get a fresh start with new people: people you haven't 'damaged', as far as you are concerned. But, who know, maybe 5 years or 10 years is long enough to make people forget. But keep in mind, that even after you take the time to Move Heaven and Earth, working on yourself to fix your Anger, that you will still be walking into rooms and seeing your loved one's tense up. So, really, you want to hang around for that? Yeah, it's not their fault. But maybe they could find somebody they are NOT afraid of, right?

Yeah, this is how Anger can damage people's lives. And still, you see all the time people in books and on line talking about how "Anger is Natural". Being an Animal is Natural. Being Human is an Ideal which we need to strive for. We should learn how to deal with Anger in our Schools. When we graduate High School, we should all be Anger Proof. But the way it is NOW, this is the kind of stuff that happens, where you only have Bad Choices and Worse Choices and your problem is picking between them. But one thing you can be sure about, and that is you have to fix your Anger. But it takes time. Think of it like going out right now and buying a violin and starting to learn how to play it (by ear, which is something I have done). How long will it take before you can do what you want to do on that violin -- that you can express yourself on it, and play along with somebody else's playing? Well, heck! It will take about a month before practicing more than 20 minutes at a time doesn't give you an OverLoad Headache. It's about 6 months before you can practice with a smile on your face, realizing that you are getting somewhere with it. Anger is the Same Thing. You got to work with Anger conceptually, that is, read all the books. You have to practice working with Triggers. You have to restructure your Reactions to Life and People. The Longer your Practice Sessions, the quicker you learn. This is why I can tell you that most people do not cure themselves of anger. They don't practice enough. They do no work. Oh, I hated that recent Elton John movie that came out (what a Low Life! ) but there was one good line from some Black Musician on what it is like to become an Artist: "You have to take the Person you were Born to Be and kill him before you can become the person want to be". Oh, one of my hobbies was English Literature and so I know how stratified English Society is, or was. heck, the English people didn't need Blacks because they had Commoners. BUT imagine how easy it would be for a Commoner to Physically Pass for being Genteel. But, then there was Language, Accent, Manners, Behaviors, Attitudes. Well, a few people were able to do it. I read of one lady who managed to infiltrate London Society when she was young and became some Great Dame of Society. She became so influential that in her Old Age she was exercising a great deal of Social Power, and so somebody had her antecedents investigated. Well, when she was confronted with her old name and that she was from some Coal Town up North, she just laughed and said "Oh, HER! I haven't been her for the last 50 years". and she meant it! That is how WE must be. We have to KILL that Angry Person and Rebuild from the Ashes.

Leo Volont wrote: Yes, Richard, your method of beating children into submission

Teaching the value of discipline has nothing to do with beating children Leo.

Your posts lose impact when you go hyperbolic, conflating some grandiose political world order with a father’s need to not throw angry tantrums in front of his son. It is a huge leap to state that if a child learns discipline, that this somehow then means they exist in some totalitarian regime that beats them into submission. A ridiculous claim actually.

Anger was a demon in my life too. Its a personal demon we must deal with personally.