I dont know how to deal with this

Broyale wrote: I dont know how else to address My issue, So thats why I am looking for help.

You don’t? You wrote the option in your post. She even handed it to you on a silver platter. LEAVE!

You seriously prefer anger and physical assault, smashing cell phones, and having tea poured on you to simply leaving? You seriously consider letting her nag you a better option than simply leaving?

You say you are a logical guy, so I’m trying to understand why physical and verbal abuse you consider to be better options than the alternative of leaving?

Why is leaving not an option? There must be some underlying fear or concern you have with this option. And it must be a pretty big fear considering the alternative options where you get into a physical and verbal altercation.

Maybe you feel like leaving is giving up? Maybe you feel like leaving is retreating or showing weakness? Maybe you feel like leaving is letting her “win” given she told you to leave? What exactly is your issue with this perfectly sound option. What is your fear that makes you prefer physical violence?

Logically, in the “modern world”, options available to handle a person that is “nagging” you and won’t shut up are limited. You don’t want to talk and her weapon of choice is her mouth. She has you trapped in a confined area, right? She has you where she wants you. There is no escape. Raw physical brutality is no longer an accepted or understood response to a verbal onslaught. And I hope we can agree, that using physical force to get someone to shut the hell up should not be accepted, it should not be tolerated. And why? Why should physical force not be acceptable to force a person to shut up when you are tired and don’t want to talk?

BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT TRAPPED! Only in your mind are you trapped, thinking that to get up and walk through that beautiful door that is available to you is somehow not an option. It is laughable. Clearly it is an option! And it is the best option, a very powerful option, an option so simple and powerful that the person verbally assaulting you while you sit in silence even mentions it in an attempt to threaten some sort of ultimatum. “LEAVE, LEAVE if you want, but If you walk out that door, it’s over” she screams!!!

Why would this be the implied threat when she tells you that you can leave? Because that is your only actual option. She must get you to believe that leaving is not an option, because all she has is her mouth. Physical force is off the table, so the only way to beat you down is to somehow make you either afraid to leave or too proud to leave.

Moving forward, pack a bag and keep it in your car. Have a hotel picked out or somewhere quiet you can go and relax. The next time she begins to use her mouth as a weapon, leave immediately. I mean immediately. When a person begins to pull out a weapon, you don’t need to wait to see if they actually will shoot. You don’t need to wait to see how many blows you can endure. The minute she begins to get hostile, leave immediately and don’t feel one damn bit of guilt. If and when she is ready to not use her mouth as a weapon, she has your number.

Note: leaving doesn’t have to mean permanent. That is all on her, not you. If she wants you to leave, open that mouth. If she wants you to stay, keep it shut. It is that simple. If those terms are not acceptable to her, that is understandable and perfectly fine as well. She has the option of your leave being permanent if she likes. That is up to her and on her. If she believes her need to nag you is more important to her than her need to have you around, that is up to her.

Welcome to the Forum Mr. Broyale

Richard had given you some very good advice in regards to the wisdom of leaving. As you yourself have pointed out, the destructive dynamic that your family life has fallen into is on a decidedly downward trajectory, and it would be unrealistic to hope for a virtual miracle that could turn that around for the better without first making a significant change to the Dynamic itself. Your leaving is the only way that you can defuse the situation and prevent a much more serious disaster. Richard seems to believe that you should go home and wait for the next flare up (at 4 o’clock in the morning, perhaps!?), but waiting would only put you in real danger. You see, next time she could call the police and report you for domestic abuse (and the cops ordinarily side with the Female, unless it is the Guy that calls for the ‘Shields’, and it seems that Women are a ‘faster draw’ when it comes to whipping out the phones compared to men who would prefer to handle matters ‘in house’. We can imagine that women are either realistically concerned about Domestic Violence, or they are paranoid about it, but both reasons will result in the Same Phone Call). Then if you are dragged off in the middle of the night by the police, that would give you, the father of your children, a permanent criminal record in that regards and you would have to spend at least a night in jail, with company not of your own choosing, and if your Wife calls the Badges in on a Friday night then you would be in the slammer all weekend until you could be arraigned on a Monday. Then we know that lawyers are expensive, and it is foolhardy to do it without a lawyer. So in the short term, the best and cheapest Insurance for your Future and your Family’s Future, would be for you to take a studio apartment somewhere close by. Tell your wife that this is not a separation, unless she wants it to be. Yes, she works one shift and you work another, and your career doesn’t leave you much time (it seems the demands upon the modern workforce are so extreme that one must exercise a great deal of imagination to conceptualize why outright slavery would be much worse). so getting to see her and the baby on a daily basis might be difficult to arrange. But certainly you both could schedule some time that you can drop by, making it understood that it should be on a sort of a “Date Rule” basis, where you both promise to be on your best behavior. You should both dress nice on these occasions, and plan to smile a lot. Flowers would add to the expense, but it could be money well spent. That would be a good short term fix.

For the long term, there are two possibilities. You can make your Own Little Place permanent. Or you both could get a Larger Place where there would be Inviolable Rules about Space Allocation and Privacy. She would have her own inviolable space and you would have yours. While that seems ‘odd’ by today’s standards, actually that used to be the Common Way of Doing Things for anybody was not forced by the degradations of poverty to live cramped together in one room which is effectively what Modern Living does its best to simulate. Even back in the Primitive Times, men and women ‘lived’ in separate quarters (what self-respecting Cave Man would even dream of hanging around after Food and Fun? And even the Cave Women would want the Men out before they began making the cave a real mess). Of course there were some ‘communal’ activities open to both genders, but generally men and women did not pester each other continuously. With the advent of Civilization more elaborate Household Structures were built which allowed for a Female Side of the House and a Male Side. And there were Communal Rooms intended mostly for Meals and Entertaining. But, again, the men and the women could go most of their time without pestering one another. Men and Women only interacted when they could be on their best behavior, when everyone would dress for meals and behave with culturally enforced ‘good manners’, and of course when Man and Woman would get together to entertain each other where, given the special rarity of the occasion, they could expect to be kind to each other for that limited time.

But nowadays even families that are making really good incomes are living on the Poverty Model – maybe not cramped together in literally one room, but because there is no allocation of space to assure privacy, it might as well be one dense muggy claustrophobic room. Even a mansion would be intolerable if you could be forever barged in on and harangued by a nagging wife, or a wife by a jealous insecure husband.

Perhaps the most idiotic way about how even affluent rich people today try to emulate the Poverty of the Past, is in the almost universal adoption of the ‘Master Bedroom’, where both Husband and Wife are supposed to share a room. Yes, when dealing with Poverty Stricken Families – share croppers forced to live in one-room shacks, or factory workers forced to live in one room sheds, the notion that Husband and Wife could have a room separate from their brood of squalling brats was something of a ‘luxury’. But back in the Good Old Days (before all the Revolutions of one kind or another), as soon as people could climb out of poverty, then a Master Bedroom would be set aside for the ‘Master’ – the Man of the House, as they quaintly used to describe it, and maybe a Library also, but the Wife would have her own domain too, perhaps even more palatial – the “boudoir”, along with other ‘private’ rooms (salons, dressing rooms, parlors, drawing rooms, etc.). You see, one of the Best Things about Living the Good Life is being able to afford to have Boundaries. The two genders cooped up together is a malignant formula. We can see this in the Demographic Data. The only reason marriages are not working nowadays is because the Poverty Model of Living was never designed to be Socially Optimal – the Poverty Model was designed to make Subsistence Living more affordable for the Exploiting Classes. Plantation owners could pay less to keep workers in one room shacks and Factory Owners could pay less to put families in one room sheds. But somehow that Poverty Model of Subsistence Living became the Cultural Norm for almost the entire Western, and now Global Community (which Islamic Culture has the good sense to resist tooth and nail). As a Society we need to go back in Time and Remember what DID work. Boundaries are our Friends.

Anyway, you can try explaining THAT to yourself, and when you have yourself convinced, then you can explain it to your wife. Effectively, you both can only be happy if you promise to leave each other alone, except for prescribed Quality Times – meals and communal hours. But no more being ‘shoulder to elbow’ 24 hours a day, getting in each other’s way, and pestering each other. Couples are the happiest when they see each other on their best behavior and best attire. Remember how fun Dating used to be. Well, marriages could go back to being like that. Wives would never again have to be disgusted by seeing their Husbands walking around in dirty tee-shirts and frayed underwear, making gross digestional noises. And men would not have to be disillusioned by seeing their wives when they first roll out of bed in the morning.

Oh, now about ANGER. By my assessment you have only a mild case of Anger… that’s if you were being totally honest with us. Yes, you were finally pushed to destructive anger, but it did require a great deal of provocation, piled on your condition of accumulated sleep deprivation and stresses from a miserably exploitative job. My advice there is that maybe you would have been able to contain yourself long enough to finally get out the house and go to work if you had been able to Control your Adrenaline. You see, all that constant attack from your Wife, combined with the anxieties about being late for work, seemed ‘Threatening’ enough to cause your Adrenal System to start pumping out Adrenaline. It was the Adrenaline that pushed up the volume of your voice and which caused you to break the phone instead of taking it away and saying, “now of course neither one of us wants to hang out our dirty laundry for all the neighbors to see, do we? You can have this back when WE both calm down.” I’ve written quite a lot about Adrenaline, and much of it is not in the Anger Management Literature. But what I have found, and it has helped more than a few Members here, is that if you can catch the First Sign of an Adrenaline Rush, which is the tightening of the jaws (the clenching of teeth; firmly closing your mouth; your teeth coming together when they are usually apart), and if you can RELAX that reflex the very millisecond that you notice it, you will effectively shut off the Adrenaline Rush. In a situation like you describe, you would simply need to focus on Breathing through Your Open Mouth. One Member wrote to me and said that she can’t get Angry as long as she can keep her mouth open. So the Trick really does work. I can’t wait until an Anger Management author of some standing steals my idea and publishes it so I can finally refer to an ‘authority’ when telling what I know for a fact to be true (oh, and then Science is horribly expensive these days . You can’t prove even the most obvious thing shy of making at least a $300,000 Grant to some University or another). Oh, by the way, another Member wrote in with the curious fact that Aggression and Hostility are not the only things that cause the Jaw Clamp Down Reflex; that acts of affection will also trigger a bit of adrenaline. Apparently in our Animal Makeup the Body considers ANY contact to be risky enough to prepare for. Yes, even when we anticipate affection, when it comes to close contact, we can never be entirely sure how it is going to go. I thought the Member’s Observation to be most curious until I realized as I was bending down to pet one of my cats, that my jaw muscles tightened. It seems that the body is automatically cautious about reaching out to touch an animal that has fangs for teeth and blades for fingers, even if they are generally cute and cuddly. But that is perhaps the reason why Nature gave us a Way of shutting down Un-needed Adrenaline Rushes… if you find there is no Danger, then simply open your mouth and take a deep breath.

Now, about your wife’s issue with Anger. While your own issues with anger are significant enough not to be dismissed, your wife’s problem with Anger are severe enough to warrant priority attention. Maybe you could get her to write in. Of course, we could give you a message to pass along, but it might work better if she writes directly to us. I am sure she has been under a great deal of stress, and along with advice we could give her some sympathy. You see, many of us here used to be, or still are subject to the same kind of Anger Episodes, and so maybe our advice wouldn’t seem quite so patronizing coming from us as from you (though maybe after working on my own Anger Issues I should take some time to deal with my tendency toward being Patronizing. The Path to Perfection always leaves One More Thing to take care of, doesn’t it?) .

So, Mr. Broyale, I hope this has been helpful. Please let me know how it goes?

You guys seem to be on little panic there and i would suggest to write down what you want from each other on paper: so when you read it its easier to calculate the problem

Write down your requests, your expectations on paper and when she reads she will have more time to think about and give a better answer/respond

laureat wrote:You guys seem to be on little panic there and i would suggest to write down what you want from each other on paper: so when you read it its easier to calculate the problem

Write down your requests, your expectations on paper and when she reads she will have more time to think about and give a better answer/respond

Hi Laureat,

All that Writing you expect from that poor distressed couple, well, I can imagine that might be difficult, in the sense that there are some things that people, who owe some discretion at least to themselves, should never write down. Imagine if these notes are saved and then some day delivered to the divorce lawyer of one party or the other. No matter how carefully one had chosen his or her words, some divorce lawyer could certainly figure out a way of twisting it against you.

then there is the Problem itself which is probably a great deal more complicated than Mr. Broyale had either the time or the inclination to tell us. We can imagine that Mr. Broyale left out some facts that his wife would have included. For instance, Mr. Broyale says he works the Early Shift. that means in the morning and early afternoon, doesn't it? But he complains that he would only get 4 hours of sleep. It doesn't add up. Unless he pulled a double shift (and he would have mentioned THAT) he must have been off doing a lot of things before he finally got around to coming home and going to bed. So perhaps his wife had been thinking that very same thing -- that he had All Day to sleep. Well, if he WASN'T sleeping, WHAT WAS he doing?

Well, you can begin to imagine how uncomfortable it would be to write down such questions when evasive answers would do more harm than good, and perhaps honest answers would be worse of all.

For all the Talk about how healthy it is to Communicate, sometimes it is just clear on the face of it that the less said about some things the better. Remember what they say about how "you can't un-ring the Bell". For instance, one time when I was married I suspected that my wife might have gone out and cheated on me. But I decided that I didn't want to know about it (I had enough to think about already) and so I didn't poke around or ask any questions. So today, since I know nothing for sure, I can suppose I was just being paranoid. But what if we Communicated and she confessed? Then today I would have THAT to deal with. So, sometimes the Best Communication is No Communication. Silence is Golden. We only have to realistically consider how many Marriages have been saved by discrete concealment as against all the marriages that have gone on the Rocks over the Truth.

It makes me wonder about Human Evolution and the Development of Telepathy and Collective Consciousness when the Truth will no longer be Concealable. Such a Development would be quite unsettling unless it were accompanied by an equally advanced Evolution in our Moral Ethical Social Behaviors. We'd all have to be either Very Pure or Very Tolerant.

Leo Volont wrote:. . . the Truth.

And perhaps it would be fine either way. As life is nothing but a spiritual experience—how we think about life is how we experience it—if knowing a Truth about something outside of ourselves is bothersome, it would be a great time to learn the spiritual quality of Forgiveness.

@Leo : it can be used against you from lawyers

that is a good thing: because you want to make sure what you asking from the other if you the one who is crossing the redline: and so you calm down with your expectations:

you can consult a lawyer about it you make sure if she is the one who is crossing the line or you just overreacting


Women can trick you up: with the reasoning of hormone problems after birth and excuse herself while you may have no good enough excuse : beware of women

Broyale wrote:[She] then took the pitcher of tea I was going to pour in bottles for work and threw it all over Me.

laureat wrote:you can consult a lawyer about it you make sure if she is the one who is crossing the line or you just overreacting

I'll save you the trip and bank account charge. Throwing something at someone can bring assault charges. For sure, any "unwanted touch" is battery. Richard would have more information on that, if he cares to divulge.

Best that he be out of the house for a while for some cooling down and thinking time.

Leo Volont wrote:Tell your wife . . .

He doesn't mention that they are married.

laureat wrote:
Women can trick you up: with the reasoning of hormone problems after birth and excuse herself while you may have no good enough excuse : beware of women

Oh! Post Natal Depression and all that! I didn't think about that. Also, a 1 year old baby would still be fussy at nights and keeping her from getting enough sleep.

Its a shame she just has her preoccupied husband to fall back on for support. Perfectly speaking, Living Arrangements should be more communal. She should have friends whose doors are seconds, not minutes, not hours, away. Traditionally Women have gone to men for a lot of things, but Emotional Support hasn't been one of them.

quietvoice wrote:

Leo Volont wrote:. . . the Truth.

And perhaps it would be fine either way. As life is nothing but a spiritual experience—how we think about life is how we experience it—if knowing a Truth about something outside of ourselves is bothersome, it would be a great time to learn the spiritual quality of Forgiveness.

Hmmmm. Do you have to be Spiritual in order to be Practical about things. Usually when people speak of Spirituality, the Idea of Applied Practicality is not the first thing that pops into our minds. The problem I have with a lot of Spirituality is that essentially it is Socially Nihilistic, that is Spiritualist retreat from the "Illusion" of the World and the only thing that continues to matter to themselves IS themselves, even while they talk about nullifying their Egos. So it seems Spiritualists make lousy ?Social Activists, but that is what the World needs today. For instance, one of the Points of Light Award Winners in America was this Wedding Planner Lady (VERY materialistic and she probably would only see Spirituality as some kind of a Wedding Motif Idea with swans and New Age Music) but when Hurricane Maria hit the PR she got on her smartphone and whipped together a Relief Operation overnight... all while thousands of spiritual people were being perfectly uselessly at peace with themselves.

quietvoice wrote:

Leo Volont wrote:Tell your wife . . .

He doesn't mention that they are married.

Oh! yes! He refers to her as the 'Mother'. I should have caught that. After my divorce I would refer to my ex-wife as my daughter's mother.