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#15

Postby dreamwalker » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:17 pm

Anthony Jacquin wrote:Please participate, we discuss all applications of hypnosis here.

Can you expand on the 'scientific basis you mentioned behind dreamwalking?

Perhaps some personal case studies with regard to healing yourself or others would help put things in perspective.

Anthony



Thank you.

I guess I should say that I believe there must be a scientific basis for what happens, I have no proof for it, yet. That is one reason I joined this forum, I am searching for a scientific reason for why I get results at times (not all the time).

I should also say that I don't hypnotise others. I use it strictly as a device for myself.

The healing that I do comes in the form of massage therapy ( I am a trained, licenced massage therapist), nutrition analysis and intuitive healing using information that I gain while meditating or dreamwalking. Aso, I should add, that the meditation and dreamwalking started as a form of stress relief and working on my own psyche, not to help others. It is only very recently that I have started using it to help other people.

Example -

I have a client who, in the beginning of our association, was approximately 220 pounds overweight (by her MD's estimation), diagnosed as clinically depressed, had diabetes, HBP, hypothyroidism, the list goes on...

She was at her wits end because the several doctors that she had for the various problems had her on 19 medications! She was still depressed, lethargic and just plain sick. I feel certian that hte 19 medications had something to do with this.

She came to me by way of a personal referral by a friend of hers who had been a client of mine for a few months.

I started working with this lady by helping her change her diet, giving her massage, and helping her to get her body moving in a positive way (ie: exercise).

After 3 months, she had lost 78 pounds, had increased energy, and her doctor decreased the dosage of some of her medications.

Through all this, I kept getting the impression that she was using me as a crutch, a way to not deal with issues herself. She was calling me 20 times a day, on average, to ask if she could do this or that, it was alarming to me that she would turn over all decisions to me.

Now, I said all that, to give you an idea of where we were at when I started using my intuition to help her.

I was very worried about her, so I started meditating on how I could help her be free of these problems. After a week of daily meditation, I started dreaming of her. This is not uncommon, because I was so focused on her, so I didn't think too much of it. After a few nights of just dreaming about her, I went into a dream state that is very much like lucid dreaming.

It was a new experience for me, because I have never done this concerning another person. I was in what I refer to as the astral plane, for me, this is a much deeper level. I feel that I connect to knowledge that may not be mine alone, or something.

Anyway, at our next session, I used massage techniques that I have never learned in a class room. I still do not know what they were called. I spent 3 hours working with her, massage directed toward opening up the abdominal area.

Suddenly, she's crying. Sobbing for no reason that she can explain.

After crying for a while, she calms down and says that she feels so much better. No explanation for it, though.

After that day, she starts taking responsibility for her own actions, she stops calling me all the time, etc.

I still continued to help her with massage and nutrition, but she is basically doing it on her own. She continues to lose weight and is off all medications for depression, her diabetes is under control with nutrition (she no longer needs insulin), and her blood pressure is almost down to normal. She still has some issues with her thyroid, but it's much better.

My question is , where did I get the information to help her open up her emotional center? This was not something I had ever heard of, let alone practiced.

This is why I am here, to see if maybe there is an explanation for this.


Sorry for the long post, but you did ask. :) I have more examples of using this with myself and others, too.
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#16

Postby kevsheldrake » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:06 pm

dreamwalker wrote:I suppose I should have expected these responses. Poeople usually ridicule things they don't understand.


Just to be clear, I only ridicule the ridiculous. My approach may be harsh; it may be seen as unkind. From an NLP perspective, I certainly don't model such worlds to gain rapport. In the past I've spent time helping people understand that what they believe is occurring is simply their own limited subjective view; that the real, physical world could be a very different place; and that logic, reason and evidence provide the only route to get from one to the other. These days, however, I tend to take the short cut of pointing out the massive improbability based on widely researched scientific understanding.

In your case, I made a flippant comment instead of a reasoned argument, for which I apologise. What you are claiming is impossible (or rather, massively improbable), however. Griffin and Tyrrell have written some books on the dreaming brain that may interest you. Richard Dawkins has written some interesting books and presented some insightful television programmes that may enlighten you. Please check amazon and google videos for more information.

Kev
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#17

Postby dreamwalker » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:21 am

kevsheldrake wrote:
dreamwalker wrote:I suppose I should have expected these responses. Poeople usually ridicule things they don't understand.


Just to be clear, I only ridicule the ridiculous. My approach may be harsh; it may be seen as unkind. From an NLP perspective, I certainly don't model such worlds to gain rapport. In the past I've spent time helping people understand that what they believe is occurring is simply their own limited subjective view; that the real, physical world could be a very different place; and that logic, reason and evidence provide the only route to get from one to the other. These days, however, I tend to take the short cut of pointing out the massive improbability based on widely researched scientific understanding.

In your case, I made a flippant comment instead of a reasoned argument, for which I apologise. What you are claiming is impossible (or rather, massively improbable), however. Griffin and Tyrrell have written some books on the dreaming brain that may interest you. Richard Dawkins has written some interesting books and presented some insightful television programmes that may enlighten you. Please check amazon and google videos for more information.

Kev


Thank you. I much prefer a reason for disagreement as opposed to flippancy.
I also appreciate the information you provided. I am looking for an answer to my questions and ANY information, pro or con is good.
I thought that I had made it clear that I didn't understand what is happening and am looking for answers.
I would like to respectfully point out that despite your assertion that it is "massively improbable", the fact remains that I am experiencing "something" that I cannot explain, but does exist. Thanks again for the names. I am definitely going to look into it.
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#18

Postby error265 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:05 pm

wasnt meditation proven in the 1960's to induce outter body experiences.. well.. its a rtroretical question really because i know the answer.

Point is.. just because something feels real.. doesnt mean it is..
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#19

Postby dreamwalker » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:07 pm

error265 wrote:wasnt meditation proven in the 1960's to induce outter body experiences.. well.. its a rtroretical question really because i know the answer.

Point is.. just because something feels real.. doesnt mean it is..


By that assertion, I could surmise that it could also BE real. It doesn't have to be, but it could be. Therein lies my quandry. I want to know whether it's real or not.

And, even if it isn't real, as in travelling beyond the physical body, what is it?

BTW, I never said that I left my body...
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#20

Postby error265 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:18 pm

i do admit its extremely interesting.
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#21

Postby icecoldheat21 » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:25 pm

Ok!

Well, I'm new to the whole hynosis thing but it's always been interesting, I just haven't really taken time out to research it more! I enjoy reading the posts here!

About the whole dreamwalking thing, the only time I've ever heard it mentioned was a few yrs ago: a friends girlfriend said she could "dreamwalk" meaning she could enter other peoples dreams in the form of an animal (1of2) I thought she was trying to look special and didn't comment...let her feel that way.

But regardless, can't you guys agree to disagree and drop it? I'm tired of reading a polite argument!
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#22

Postby TheDarkJay » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:23 pm

You'd rather read an impolite one?

Discussing anything is a polite argument. If it wasn't, It'd not be a discussion, it'd either be a "We are right, Yes we are" talk, or a swear-fest.
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#23

Postby Anthony Jacquin » Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:29 pm

'Truth is nothing but a path traced between errors'

Franz Anton Mesmer - 'Father' of Hypnosis.

...and we all know how wrong he was!
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#24

Postby dreamwalker » Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:30 am

icecoldheat21 wrote:Ok!

Well, I'm new to the whole hynosis thing but it's always been interesting, I just haven't really taken time out to research it more! I enjoy reading the posts here!

About the whole dreamwalking thing, the only time I've ever heard it mentioned was a few yrs ago: a friends girlfriend said she could "dreamwalk" meaning she could enter other peoples dreams in the form of an animal (1of2) I thought she was trying to look special and didn't comment...let her feel that way.

But regardless, can't you guys agree to disagree and drop it? I'm tired of reading a polite argument!


I thought we had done just that. Thanks for keeping it going, though. ;)

BTW, I CAN get down and dirty in an argument if needed. I just didn't see the need. Have a nice day.
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#25

Postby BatFonz » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:46 am

I have to say I have always felt message board, discussion forums are exactly about that: discussion and debate. Frankly I rather enjoy hearing different perspectives to an argument as although like most people I have already formulated distinct ideas and stances towards certain things but like any good inquisitive mind am open to new information to improve my knowledge

I do find the whole Dream-walking fascinating & I also think 'Dreamwalker' you are doing a very brave thing taking something that has had such a profound effect on you and investigating it in a scientific fashion which could end with you coming to a resolution which is a million miles away from what you believe now

All I would say based on one of your earlier posts is in a debate it is not up to someone to disprove a negative e.g. In the absence of any factual evidence pro or con a position, that position should not be the default, the only logical one has to be skepticism of both until evidence supports one or the other

If that doesn't make sense I'll explain later but if you have studied science I'm sure you get where I'm coming from - I hope you will post your findings, perhaps in another thread
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#26

Postby dreamwalker » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:18 pm

BatFonz wrote:I have to say I have always felt message board, discussion forums are exactly about that: discussion and debate. Frankly I rather enjoy hearing different perspectives to an argument as although like most people I have already formulated distinct ideas and stances towards certain things but like any good inquisitive mind am open to new information to improve my knowledge

I do find the whole Dream-walking fascinating & I also think 'Dreamwalker' you are doing a very brave thing taking something that has had such a profound effect on you and investigating it in a scientific fashion which could end with you coming to a resolution which is a million miles away from what you believe now

All I would say based on one of your earlier posts is in a debate it is not up to someone to disprove a negative e.g. In the absence of any factual evidence pro or con a position, that position should not be the default, the only logical one has to be skepticism of both until evidence supports one or the other

If that doesn't make sense I'll explain later but if you have studied science I'm sure you get where I'm coming from - I hope you will post your findings, perhaps in another thread


Yes, I do understand. Thank you for pointing it out, because I can see where I may have come across that way. When I explained what I was doing here, I really had no intention of debating anything. Silly me :).

I do plan on posting any results or information that I find. I know "something" is going on, and I want to know what it is and whether I can find a basis in science. I like to be able to back up my assertions with facts. Just because I don't have them yet doesn't change my experience, though.

I do fully expect to have resistance to something I can't prove yet.

I'm working on it!
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#27

Postby kevsheldrake » Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:02 pm

dreamwalker wrote:I would like to respectfully point out that despite your assertion that it is "massively improbable", the fact remains that I am experiencing "something" that I cannot explain, but does exist.


I'd like to respectfully reiterate my assertion that what you are experiencing is a delusion. ;) My last word on it. Honest.

Kev
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#28

Postby dreamwalker » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:34 am

kevsheldrake wrote:
dreamwalker wrote:I would like to respectfully point out that despite your assertion that it is "massively improbable", the fact remains that I am experiencing "something" that I cannot explain, but does exist.


I'd like to respectfully reiterate my assertion that what you are experiencing is a delusion. ;) My last word on it. Honest.

Kev


Ah. Then we agree to disagree, for now ( I reserve the right to change my opinion later). Works for me. :)
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#29

Postby mamiek » Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:45 am

hai my name mamiek, i am from indonesia
i am new with hypnosis, i feel this forum is good for me

love you all
mamiek
teladan dot batcave dot net
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