I feel like i'm disapearing into my mind.

Hi Bell,

If the only place you feel comfortable and at home is within yourself and outside of there is pain, it's not surprising that you spend a lot of time within yourself.

However, as you suggest, you might be missing something, like contact with other people for example, to meet the Basic Human Needs.

You say there are so few interesting people - what, for you, makes people interesting?

If you can condition yourself to do anything except finding people interesting (which is quite an achievement in itself), what stops you from being curious about other people and finding them interesting? How would life be better for you when you do find people interesting?

You talk about following the path of least resistance - if that were literally true we wouldn't be able to walk, we would have fallen over once as a baby and just given up! You might like to have a look at Hike your way to happiness (or why why deliberate discomfort is good for you)!

Bell.
You might not be mentally ill in the strict sense of the word but you do seem to suffer from a very unhealthy condition that is perhaps bedst viewed as relating to the flow of your life-force. Im refering to the proces where a sensed idea or ideal leads to motivation and a constant striving for realisation of the sensed ideal. This proces constitutes the flow of life in a normal individual, but it can be reversed in the sense that the energy is dispersed into imagined realms of unfoldment. If you do reverse this proces byond a certain point you will bring a series of problems upon yourself, problems that you seem to worry about yourself, but perhaps not think very clear about.

Devitalisation: Focusing your energies in a world of mystic vision and imaginations of the sensed ideal will rob your physical body of the vitalising forces that is needed for a normal life expression, leading to weakness and negativity. This is not just a tendency to impracticallity, but a tendency to withdrawl from the scene of life that "leaves your house unguarded" so to speak.

Delusion: When continued for many years the building of a thoughform of vision, a powerfull dream of what could have been, can ultimatly lead to obsession and to a condition where it get increasingly difficult to maintain a clear distinction between the thoughtform and realities.
Instead of indicating to you a goal that you might some day attain, or existing in your consciousness as the symbol of an inner reality which you might some day know, you would then live within your imaginations of this goal, obsessed by your own thoughform of truth and of reality. It is the failure to bring into physical expression what you are sensing that is at the root of your troubles.

Detachment: The subjective attitude might or might not bring a tendency a disregard for normal accepted rules of life. And where you find such disregard of normal rules you will usually also find failure, be it failure to get elected, failure in vocational life or failure in establising a family. If continued for long your tendency towards "inner life" might result in the progressive breakdown of all personal relations leaving you free to dream. Is your view that people seem uninteresting based on a lack of repect for what it takes to "make it" in the real world?

You got to ask yourself if this is brought about by a - perhaps yet unrecognised - desire to escape responsibility, from the pain and troubles of everyday life and from the expectations of those arround you.

You say nothing about your interest and what values your inner world is about, but i would like to challenge you to express that inner reality in a way that could be benneficial to other people. Such undertaking will always means compromising, but sacrifise is what brings real liberty.

Thanks for your replies. I find I've been posting on forums because it seems to be were i can keep some link to reality. Though i do have a relatively active social life, i usually go out with friends at least 2 to 3 times a week. I find i have a lot of stresses in my life but i never seem to have time to sort out what's important. Figure out what i want from life. I have so little free time yet i feel like I'm doing the minimum. I always feel like I'm not pushing myself hard enough yet i feel exhausted at the end of each day. I have this weird feeling like half of me is falling asleep and half of me is waking up. I feel there is a part of me that is becoming more disciplined focus and resilient but theirs another part of me that is becoming subdued and exhausted. I think sometimes i can't figure out how to be the person i want to be so I'm conforming to the person society tells me I should be. I think the person i want to be exist in that world within me. Its a chaotic and free person who cries when their sad and cries out when their angry. Gives everyone a hug when their happy, kisses when they love. That is the me within my mind i think. But that me can not exist within the world i see. That person gets strange looks and is shunned. Passed off as eccentric. I'm not sure i really want to be that person in reality. I think there is a part of me that enjoys being the politician in the real world, it likes having the 2 points of reference that feed off each other. I think that perhaps I realise that the real me is in a state of depression as low as it can go. I feel i create this bliss within my mind to insulate it until its safe for it to be exposed to the real world. Until i have resolved the cause of its depression. Its like I have myself in a cast that allows me to function like a normal human being. Like have a job and social life but at the same time feel no pain. Not care what others think of me. Be immune to the world until i am ready to face it. Until i can deal with it. I think when i retreat within myself i am healing something that has been damaged. That's why it feels especially good. I've though about doing volunteer work to help satisfy those basic human needs you speak of, but i worry that the extra stress of responsibility will push me in the wrong direction. I find i have about an hour of free time a night and i need that to wind down to get to sleep. On weekends i have the afternoons if i get up early to get all my housework done. I worry about eating into that free time i have because it will limit my social contact. Perhaps I need to limit my social contact to some extent to increase it in the long run. Sometimes feel there's so many things to juggle that i just can't keep track of everything. It's to painful to let myself care about what people think of me, their are so many things to juggle in life that its inevitable that I'm going to let people down. I don't intend to let people down but my brain only has such a capacity so when its being pushed beyond that capacity it makes mistakes. Letting people down is the nature of a busy life. I get all the important stuff done. Theirs so many points of view in my mind trying to have their say. I'm not sure which one is mine. By the time i finish a sentence the contrary opinion to the one i have stated seems to have gained sway making me feel incredible indecisive. I feel like such a hypocrite at times. I can't process all opinions at once yet i feel if i don't have an opinion then I have no character. No self. Ah I'm rabbling i know but it takes too long to sort out coherent thoughts so I'm just throwing it all out there and seeing what happens. I wish i was a better typist. My mind is ill and information is my only cure. I know you have to do your way out of depression, but i do lots, I'm quite active. Being active only seems to control the depression. I need something real to cure it. I'm in complete control. This rant here isn't representative of the character i show the world in the slightest. Except maybe to close friends. If something is obviously the right thing to do i do it. I eat as well as i can manage make sure i eat 3 square meals a day. I research what the healthiest foods to eat are. I try to get exercise whenever i have a free moment. I always accept invitations out and organise something if i feel i haven't been out enough. I'm always refining my life trying to improve it in any way i can but there's always something lacking and i just can't figure it out. Sometimes I think I'm actually one of the most mentally healthy people in the world. I think most people use drugs to deal with their reality. I think my retreating into myself is probably healthier than that. I think i have a slightly unhealthy contempt for most people. I can't stand irrational behaviour. People who become angry or violent. I think i have a difficulty dealing with people who can become angry. Anger changes people into something that makes me feel alien to the world. Their are so many people who get angry rather than talking about problems. The most i get is spiteful and I usually pick that up in myself and correct the problem as soon as i realise my behaviour isn't rational. Actually i don't mind angry people, everyone has faults. I guess it's people who believe anger is ever justified. Anger is a defence mechanism and that's all in my view. Sorry, i guess I'm being selfish hear asking you to read all this junk but i don't know what is important and what's not. I imagine you guys have training to spot things that might give you a clue to what is the core of my... i guess illness. I think i might leave it there and see what happens. There's a torrent more but I'll see if i still have your interest after that spiel first. Ultimately, at my core i believe i know nothing and I'm all ears to suggestions. Sometimes i find people intresting sometimes i feel they have nothing to say but rehashed clichés and opinions not of their own. Mealy spouting the popular line. I guess a lot of it is my perception though. I'm not really unhappy but i know something's wrong . Well that was therapeutic, if a little self indulgent. If i still have your interest all the better. I never know if I really believe something is true until i write it down. I can usually decipher and diagnose my thoughts my own but second opinions are always welcome

Well - you might find that sitting down and deciding what is actually important to you could give you some liberation from your "web of futility".

I feel confident that simplicity will not be a treasured quality for you, but you might actually get another perspective on your life if you can manage to give yourself a spot of silence. The elaborate creativty of the mind is something very wonderfull, but it is not the only melody in the great song that is life.


cheers

The states that you describe, Bell, are strikingly familiar to me. I had my own times when I preferred retreating to my private space and listening to music without being disturbed by even the slightest parasitic sound from the outside world. They ultimately described it as a "depressive disturbance with structural basis", which I took to mean a depressive disturbance developed because of my psychological structure. It ended in a suicide attempt.

Thinking back on the whole thing, there are really very few suggestions I could make that would help actually _solve_ the problem. I can think of things that might help you keep your condition under control, but the only real _solution_ I know of is the one I was applied after my ... ahem ... jump - Life Reset. With the medical problems generated by my jumping from the 5th floor of my student dormitory, I had to miss a lot of my courses and when it was all over, I decided to put college on hold and take it from the top the next year. Also, after they took care of my body, diagnosing my psyche with what I said, they recommended I be hospitalized for psychiatrical treatment. Having just assessed my condition, the doctor's words to me were "This is an illness.", to which my well-inspired response was "Well, if it's an illness, let's treat it.", even though I was uncertain about what that could mean - I had never had psychological treatment before. So I completely broke rhythm : I put my schooling on hold for a year (and relieved myself of all the educational imperatives : "You have to complete your education", "You have to become very good at what you do", "You have to become able to get a well-paid job if you're to have a satisfying life", yada yada) and I put my usual life on hold for a month (freeing myself of all the other things that plagued my daily thinking, all the social and personal expectations I was constantly trying to live up to). Of course, a key role might have been played by the medication they gave me . If I remember correctly (I'm not saying "Try this at home" here), it was glucose, vitamins B1 & B6, Nitrazepamum (I don't know what you call it, it's a light sedative that basically just helps you sleep), probably some other multi-vitaminic complex and the mysterious white tablet - they wouldn't tell me what that was. Probably a more powerful/specialised sedative or antidepressant.

Anyway, getting back to what _you_ can do : I'd say ask around, read some more, maybe there's an easier way, but I can guarantee that the "Stop the world, I wanna get off !" solution can really make things right.


Adi

So, Adi, now that you've managed to free yourself from all those expectations which ended up pushing you out of a window, would you tell us how you structure your life now?

That could help a lot of people!

Kathleen

kfedouloff : "would you tell us how you structure your life now?"

There's no simple answer here. I would only find it relevant to describe my "return to the world" after treatment and everything that's happened since (everything psychologically relevant, of course). And even that wouldn't be helpful to just anyone. There's a lot of human diversity. Even the expression "to structure one's life" might be very far from what happens in many people's minds. Also, the people who could find this helpful would first have to find the "disappearing into my mind" topic intriguing enough to click and read. Are you sure it would help that many people ? We are talking about a two-three years story ...


Adi

Bell,

I just posted a reply in another thread, "Strange Feeling", that gives a little of my own experience that may have some relevance to your own feelings.

Regards,

Milamber

It takes effort to get to know someone. JUST because a person may appear boring or non interesting to you doesnt mean they dont possess qualities which you may learn to appriciate.

People are afraid, its in our nature. A LOT of us are afriad to be who we really are, and in order for you to find out you may have to try harder with some people and stick around for longer...
I dont know im talking crap
Time for my nap

Hi! Lemme give a piece of my mind in respect of feeling lonely and remaining in isolation... People get absorbed in life when they are in seclusion, when they have sufficient time to talk of life, people etc... I myself used to have very few friends, thus, almost nobody with who i could socialize... I studied psychology, learrning, studying, observing.. I thought i was gonna become mad, but it did help me much. i started getting to know all kinds of situations and circumstances better than i used to... very few things can enrage me now, becaue i know what is what...
To tell the truth it will be a bit hard for you to change the way you look at life and the people.. This is your nature... I am not discouraging you... but you must be able to accept yoursef as you are... you find many people uninteresting.. Take this, all the people have something interesting in them
... You must be able to find it... Let it be your mission Try to find what you are looking for... You may be a man of a few words. Am I right? You don't like accepting phone calls in the evenings.. Is that so? Man, you are getting accustomed to living alone... Any man who has sound mind is able to surmount simiar problems... We are HUMAN BEINGS, the most powerful creatures on the Earth... We survived, we survive and we will survive...
Sometimes, you feel that it is pointless to fight with yourself, and try to change the world the way we desire to see... sometimes you feel everything to be the way it is... We are surrounded by GOOD and BAD things... Bad things preveail over Good things.. there is no doubt about it... But for the Bad things, we would never be able to learn about Good things... and thus become wise... Good luck!!!!

Hi Bell,
Just reading your post and I was wondering about your point about not finding people interesting.
I may be wrong and I do not wish to mind-read, but it seems to me that there is a lot of anger around your feelings towards other people.
I can relate to what you say because when I retreat into myself I am filled with a rage towards others and who they are. I have often said to myself that other people are selfish/boring/evil/too perfect (anything that comes to mind). I realised that I was transposing my fears of what other people might think of ME onto them. Kind of like a self-defence mechanism. If I think that they are boring FIRST, then if they think I am boring then it doesn't matter.
Have you been judged in your life by others? Often when we judge others, eg your judgement that other people are uninteresting and afraid, it is often because we have been judged.
Do you think that people might think you are uninteresting?

hey thanks for you posts guys. I think your all right to a large degree. I find a lot of it is that i feel so exhausted which makes me prone to anger and frustration. Which leads me to have this hate looking for a target. I will never let myself hate people, the most I'll let myself do is call them boring. Mostly my hate latches on to social trends or broad ranging social issues. I guess i try and dissipate my anger on large issues that no one is really at fault for. But I'd rather not have the hate and the only way I've found to get rid of the hate is to 'timeout' and take a break from reality and let myself relax. I guess what causes me to disappear with myself is that when i try to expose myself to reality and deal with everything, i just start feeling tired again which in turn causes me to feel hate and anger due to my frustration at being handicapped by tiredness. I understand though, like anything you have to push through the pain to get any kind improvement. I've signed myself up for a night course that I'm starting this week, and I've got an appointment with a volunteer agency latter in the week. Hopefully these things will keep me pinned to reality and will give me the social exposure i need. At the very least I'm sure to learn something. All people are intresting, i just wish i was better at getting people to trust me enough to let themselves be the intresting person they are around me. To tell me their dreams, desires and needs.
In answer to your question yoghurtraisin, i do worry a lot about being judged. Or more to the point, letting people down. However I've never really worried about people finding me boring. That's one thing i know people don't think about me, I'm a bit of an eccentric. Someone once told me i couldn't be boring if i tried . I'm thinking I'm very random most of the time in an attempt to make things more intresting. Although, i think my randomness has toned down in recent times. Not sure why. I guess I'm feeling that my life needs some discipline if I'm going to fix it.

Hi bell

Have you read The Basic Needs?

Kathleen

Hi Bell,

Healthy people meditate by going within to find stillness and peace. Amongst other things meditation can help develop self-awareness and promote tolerance and as you say, it is better to go within to relax than to take drugs. I meditate regularly and agree with you that there does need to be a balance between how much time you spend within and how much time you spend in the real world.

In order to find people more interesting maybe you need to define what really interests you and then spend time with people who share your interests. Doing a few things that you really enjoy might help you to feel that you are using your time to its fullest potential and it can even alleviate the more mundane parts of life. Maybe you need to do less of what is not so satisfying or necessary in your life and do more of what you really enjoy.

I worry too about what others think of me, however at the end of the day, I accept that people sometimes react the way they do because of their own life experiences, fears and feelings etc. We cannot control everything. It is important to love and accept yourself - it is OK to make mistakes and to feel emotions - these things help us to learn and grow as individuals.

Forgiving yourself and others for negative emotions and things that really upset you can also help in letting go of emotional pain. You don't have to say it to other people, just say it to yourself. When you can forgive, it is often possible to let go of negative feelings that are weighing you down and holding you back. Keep trying but go easy on yourself - you deserve it.

Marylin