Looking for some good advice

Postby Revolverx » Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:38 pm

Hi, my name is Michael. I am 21 years of age. Long post ahead, sorry for the rambling.

This may sound silly, but I feel really embarassed writing this, maybe I'm not used to opening up to strangers about my problems? This is the first time I've really ever spoken aloud what I feel on the inside.

I've been browsing over your site the past week, and the information is great; I relate greatly to all the symptoms of low self confidence, self conciousness, social disorder, and lack of social skills.

I'll start off by saying this...... I was abused as a child. That's the first time I've ever told anyone outside my family this. I realize from reading your site that the key is to put these thoughts aside, and move on, but this is extremely difficult for me. My father was both physically and emotionally abusive. He constantly put me down and insult me. Many days I was in tears locked away in my room.

This had a dramatic effect on my social skills. From the first day of school up until grade three, I never spoke to anyone, ever. I only whispered (yes whispered) to those who I had a slight friendship with, never spoke aloud unless it was to an authority figure (I was too scared for some reason.) After that I began speaking aloud, but only when extremely necessary. I was often teased as the boy who never talked, and gruesomley picked on by bullies because of my lack of confidence. This spanned my years through high school. I had few friends, and because my family moved after my sophomore year, I had zero friends my last two years of high school. I never attended my high school prom.

Also, in high school, my family got hooked up on the internet, which I became instantly addicted too. Maybe someone can explain why, but I played hours on end, often times sacrificing sleep. Maybe I found these new means of socializing exciting? I played a computer game online, which I became extremely good at, and winning gave me a really good feeling inside, (perhaps self confidence?)

So after, that I attended college for half a year and moved out without telling my family, I couldn't take the abuse from my father anymore, so I lived on my own for about a year and a half, and moved back home due to financial problems (my addiction to the internet contributed to this.) My father treats me differently now because I pay $400 a month in rent and he knows if he abuses me, I will simply move out again and he'll lose the money.

Sorry for the rambling of my past, just wanted to give a background to lead up to my current situation. Since I've moved back home, I believe I've progressed and regressed socially, and I'm really looking to progress to have the self confidence every normal person has. I got into the career of route sales, which forces me to socialize on a regular basis with other human beings. At first it was tough, but I can see that I've grown as my anxiety in social situations (namely authority figures) has decreased dramatically, although it's still there.

Here's my question, even after reading all the information on the site, and drenching my brain in information as to why my social anxiety plus other problems occur, ( I even took the confidence course) I am still unable to relieve myself of anxiety in some social situations. These include: selling, holding a long conversation, and talking to girls (I've never had a girlfriend, as sad as that may sound.) I constantly feel depressed, about the way I look, my career choices, how I live my life, etc.

Here's my questions:

How do you know what to say, and what to talk about in a long conversation, such as over five minutes? I feel I am able to make small talk with just about anyone, except someone of the opposite sex that I am physically attracted.

How do you relieve yourself of depressed moments? When something bad happens, I tend to be depressed about it all day. I've tried focusing on something else, and thinking of better moments, but it doesn't seem to work, I can't shake the bad thoughts.

How do you relieve social anxiety IN a social situation effectively? If you focus on something else, it will appear as you are ignoring the person you are talking to, and for me, focusing on them only makes the anxiety worse. I often begin to sweat, and shake a little bit.

I've also done some research and found that socializing can also be impacted by genetics, such as some people are intraverts (less outgoing) and some people are extraverts (very outgoing) Can somebody explain this in detail and how this may effect ones behavior in a social situation?

Thanks for all your help, and I am crossing my fingers for some good responses. (I really need them :)
Revolverx
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#1

Postby Roger Elliott » Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:12 pm

Hi Revolverx and a big welcome to the forums. That was a great opening post, clear and well written, and I think you should get some good responses,

Let me start...

Firstly, it sounds like your experiences growing up have been pretty awful. It is extremely common, I would even say 'normal' for someone with a background such as yours to have social anxiety and problems relating to others in various ways. I am treating someone presently who has is in a startlingly similar situation to you.

What impresses me about you is that you have refused to let it get the better of you.
I got into the career of route sales, which forces me to socialize on a regular basis with other human beings. At first it was tough, but I can see that I've grown as my anxiety in social situations (namely authority figures) has decreased dramatically, although it's still there.
This is a brave move, but as so many people discover, doing things which scare you, regularly, is the quickest way to progress, and the best way to get rid of social anxiety.
How do you relieve yourself of depressed moments? When something bad happens, I tend to be depressed about it all day. I've tried focusing on something else, and thinking of better moments, but it doesn't seem to work, I can't shake the bad thoughts
Have you read the Depression Learning Path? There is a section in there on thinking styles, which will explain to you how the way you think affects the impact bad events have on you, and how long those effects last.

Regarding the extrovert/introvert thing, it does appear to be true that people tend to have proclivities in one direction or the other, but that does not mean then either cannot learn the other's approach. You have plenty of reason to feel anxious in social situations without having to look to genetics for an explanation. You have simply learnt to be anxious when relating to others. You have said that you have learnt to be less anxious by puttiing yourself in a situation where you couldn't escape socialising. Do you think you could improve even more by continuing along similar paths in different areas of life?

I hope this helps, and that others will help fill in the gaps I have left.

All the best

Roger
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#2

Postby grovelli » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:57 am

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#3

Postby Revolverx » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:27 am

Hi,

Thank you so much for your help thusfar, I believe that I continue making the effort, that someday I can perhaps overcome my problems.

I do have another question. After reading the depression learning path, I discovered a trait in which they described that fits me perfectly and that is this:

"Interpersonal therapy for depression

This approach focuses on the way people relate with other people in their lives - how they communicate and express themselves. Whether a person is assertive, aggressive or timid or has 'social skills' is seen as key.
Extremely common in depression sufferers is the lack of satisfaction in various relationships: family, work, social. Depression can cause us to lose access to the skills and the desire to sustain these relationships successfully.

Whether it be feelings of wanting to be alone, not knowing what to say, or just feeling wretched and not wanting to be in company, a large percentage of depression sufferers exhibit what is crudely called "poor social skills" such as:

Being less assertive

Being less positive

Showing negative facial expressions and poor eye contact

Displaying less interaction in group situations

Unwittingly carrying out 'off-putting' social behavior such as innapropriate questioning, too much or too little self-disclosure, or missing out small-talk.
"

I chuckled aloud as I read this because these symptoms describe me PERFECTLY. This is exactly what I suffer from!

How can I overcome these obstacles? Is this the same as social disorder, and self conciouness? They seem similiar, so will the same treatments described on your site contribute to me combatting these issues?

Thanks in advance for your response.
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#4

Postby Jared » Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:55 pm

Hello Revolverx,
First I want to tell you that I am not a trained Psycologist or a theropist. However, I believe that I have something anyway. If I am wrong, I hope that someone will correct me.

Sometimes people feel that they have got to say something to people to socialize. I do not believe this is the case. I believe sometimes a persons presence is all that it takes. So if you do not know what to say, just do not say anything at all and try to enjoy the other persons presence.

Another advice is to try to find out what you like. Finding people with same interest can help alot. I listen most of the time to people until they are on a topic that I can jump in on. When you find people that share the same interest then you can talk a very long time comfrotably.

Sorry for the spelling. I am also no English Major. :lol:
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#5

Postby Revolverx » Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:06 am

Hi Jared, thanks for your response.

I tried what you said, however, I can't seem to shake that awkward feeling I get when engaged in social interaction with someone else and a moment of silence occurs. In Roger's tutorial, one of the lessons is to model other confident peoples behavior, and I notice that none of the socially adept and self confident people I know have trouble carrying on a conversation for hours without a single pause of silence. Sometimes I even feel like I'm failing to progress when a social interaction goes wrong, because I'm either nervous and fumble up my words, or silence occurs.

Off topic: I've also discovered I have a problem calling people by their name. As someone who is forced to socialize every day, I did a survey, and found that I know many of the names of the people on my route, but I fail to use them in greeting or conversation (maybe because I'm too nervous?) I still call them sir, maam, or man, even after two years of knowing these people. As a result, most of these same people do not know my name in return. Perhaps I am scared of progressing specific relationships past the business level?

Is forcing myself to start calling these people by their first names a good way to overcome this, or do I simply need to work on my self confidence first?

Any replies to any of my posts are greatly apprieciated, as there is no therapist who lives close to where I live that I can start sessions with. Thanks.
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#6

Postby kfedouloff » Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:23 pm

Hi Revolverx

I wonder why we get so hung up about silence? Who is responsible for the silence? I mean, if there are two people together, and both are silent, which one of them needs to do something about it? Has it got to be you? I don't know where we got the idea that we should fill up all silences with talk. How about just letting them be? A silence is neither good nor bad. It's just silent!

It also amuses me that when people try to "fill the silence" the topic they speak on is never the silence itself! But why not? It's a perfectly good subject to start a conversation on! You can say to the other person "What do you do when there's a silence in a conversation?" - You'll get some interesting answers, and you can also make things easier for the other person, who may be as self-conscious as you are about silence, and welcome the fact that you understand this.

Worth a try!

Kathleen
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#7

Postby kfedouloff » Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:31 pm

Revolverx wrote:
I've also discovered I have a problem calling people by their name. As someone who is forced to socialize every day, I did a survey, and found that I know many of the names of the people on my route, but I fail to use them in greeting or conversation (maybe because I'm too nervous?) I still call them sir, maam, or man, even after two years of knowing these people. As a result, most of these same people do not know my name in return. Perhaps I am scared of progressing specific relationships past the business level?

Is forcing myself to start calling these people by their first names a good way to overcome this, or do I simply need to work on my self confidence first?


I should think that practising with names can go alongside building up your confidence, Revolverx - and it sounds like you have really done a lot already to overcome the effects of your past.

You could start off gently, with maybe just one or two of the people you regularly meet and whose names you know. It might feel awkward to just suddenly launch into using their names, so you could ease yourself in by saying something like, "Hey, I've been meeting you for a long time, and I noticed I hadn't got around to using your name, would you mind if I called you XXXXX?" I can guarantee that they will say, "Sure, go ahead!" And then you can say, "Thanks, XXXX, and please call me Michael" - and you're there! That way, in a couple of seconds, you have used their name twice, in a nice structured way, and then it will feel OK to continue doing that!

Let us know how it goes

Kathleen
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#8

Postby Jared » Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:00 pm

Also, sometimes calling people by there name goes a long way for some people.
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#9

Postby Revolverx » Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:29 am

Thanks for your replies everyone. It has been so much help to me. I feel I've made a lot of progress over the past week. I've found that if I'm able to relax myself when engage in a social situation, then I naturally know what to say; which is funny because previously when involved, I would spend the entire time racking my brains for things to say!

I do have another situation I seek some advice on. There is this girl at the bank which I am very attracted to, and I find myself constantly thinking about her. Usually I get extremely nervous before going to the bank because I know I will be involved in a social situation with her, and know matter what I do, I can't seem to calm down my nerves. Even the thought of her strikes anxiety in my heart. I realize it's normal for most people to be a little apprehensive towards someone that they like in that matter, but I feel it's more extreme with me. What's even worse is whenever I'm in a social situation with her, 90% of the time is complete silence. Today I was actually able to calm myself down to examine her a bit and I was curious if she was also socially anxious as well. She made very little eye contact with me, and she spoke in a very low volume voice, which is odd, because she seems to be a very confident person. From this, I gathered that either she A) doesn't like me or B) is socially anxious around me as well, but I can't tell.

Any tips on how to handle this situation? Usually while I wait in line and I know I'm soon going to have to meet her face to face, I find myself shaking and sweating. I would do just about anything to relax and have the confidence I now have with a normal everyday person!

Thanks in advance for your reply.
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