relationship issues and depression

You don't start a family with someone without a clear and definitive yes. Not saying no, is not a healthy basis for making such a major commitment.

Totally agree. I meant to say that she does not say she never wants it, she can see herself wanting this in the future. If she said she never wants to have kids, it would be a deal-breaker.

in_limbo_land wrote: If she said she never wants to have kids, it would be a deal-breaker.

When we date someone, we determine if there are any deal breakers over the first few dates, possibly months of a relationship. Family, religion, career compatibility, life goals, values, etc. are determined up front. The reason for this is to avoid exactly the situation you now face.

4 years is an incredible amount of time to be dating a person without yet having resolved all the deal breakers. By this time there should be zero deal breakers still left on the table.

Moving forward here is what you need to do:

-1- Acknowledge you made a mistake. You did not resolve deal breakers up front. You potentially spent 4 years with a person that is a "maybe" on kids.

-2- Having acknowledged the mistake don't repeat the mistake. Do not allow 4 years to become 5, then 6, then 8 waiting to resolve the deal breaker issue. 4 years is a sunk cost. You can't get it back. It is the sunk cost fallacy to believe because you have 4 years invested you are stuck and must invest another year in a relationship that may not be going anywhere.

-3- It sounds to me like she is not ready or even healthy mentally for kids at this point and that is a fear and a reality you need to face. You don't want to force her into committing to kids. She might say yes just to keep the relationship, when really she has no desire for them. It is a tricky situation, but it doesn't change the bottom line.

-4- The bottom line, you need to ask her and tell her "maybe" isn't going to cut it. You need to have some serious discussions and set some firm dates. It isn't about an ultimatum, it is about a firm date to move forward with your lives. Get specific with her. Ask very specific questions about having a family and understanding her underlying reasons. You might want to get a better understanding of your underlying reasons as well. Why do you even want to have a family? If the answers are vague, if she is unsure or can't articulate why she wants to have kids, then you need to take that as a no.

Given what you posted my intuition tells me the answer is no. She would only be having kids for the wrong reasons and I think you already kinda know this as well. Given 4 years you want the answer to be yes and if it is not yes you are more than likely willing to just have the "deal breaker" remain an open issue for several more years. That would just be compounding bad decision on top of bad decision. I encourage you to acknowledge your mistake and confront your fears now, resolve the issue now and then move forward in life.

Thank you for the lengthy reply Richard. It is good that you are pointing this out to me as I have a tendency to avoid conflict and just not think about this issue. Especially when I am anxious that our relationship might be ending. So it is good to be reminded. I do want to add that the first 3 years we both wanted kids some day, just not at that time (not finacially secure, enjoying our freedom). In the last year I have gradually become more certain that I want to start a family and she has become more unsure.

I hesitate to tell her that "maybe" is not enough for me, because she is sliding into a depression and under a lot of stress. I guess I am still hoping that after this is over we can improve our relationship although I might be deceiving myself here.

Hi inlimbo

I am in a somewhat similar situation as you are. I feel like your conundrum is the same as mine -- which is more important right now, her/his needs or mine?

It's very difficult to be logical when there's emotion involved. If this were someone else, it would be easy for us to walk away. All I can say is, this is not something we can control and if we decide to support our partners then we need to be prepared and emotionally strong for it. When my bf came out of his initial depression (first time with me involved anyway), I thought things were going to be fine moving forward, but I was wrong. It happened again. BUT that time he was feeling better before the next wave hit, we were closer and he appreciated me more for standing by him. I wish I knew what to tell you. But if you decide to be there for your gf, I think focusing on yourself for now is the right way to go. Take care of yourself so you can be there for her. I don't know what other relationship issues you have with her but I think 4 years is a good enough time for you to evaluate if you want a life with her or not. I guess another way to look at it is, if things were ok, you guys get married and this happens the next day, what would you do?

Thanks for the reply hopefulcheese. It helps to know I am not the only one struggling with this. If we got married and we would be good otherwise and THEN she would feel like this, I would definetely stand by her and wait until she feels better to pick up our lives. But I go back and forth between remembering all the good stuff and remembering all the bad stuff and I cannot really decide wether we were ok or not before this.