Urge to hurt people

John_smith wrote:As long as I can remember anger has been an issue, whether the urge to hurt others is part of that I can't say. As a child this anger would be taken out on my sister, but as I've grown up this has started to scare me. I wouldn't want to hurt someone close to me, but these urges are getting harder to fight as I age. I remember when I was 5 years old I found a strange set of videos of cartoon characters getting blown up, blended and crushed at the time I didn't understand that pain excited me and yet I couldn't stop watching. I don't think It's anything sexual although I've never tried anything like that. Can someone please help me find away to get over this so I don't hurt anyone close to me.

Dear John,

How old are you? Its an important question because it allows us to figure in for whether or not you are still reeling from the change in your endocrine system that occurs through puberty and follows through into your teen years.

But in regards to the Urge to Violence in Boys, well, I would say that it is very common. When I was growing up there were a great many of my friends who delighted in torturing frogs, snakes and insects. In my Neighborhood I suppose Dogs and Cats were understood to be sufficiently 'Totem' animals and so they were not on the List for torture. But, all of my Friend Grew Out of their Lust for inflicting Pain. and that is another reason why I need to know how old you are. Maybe you just need a year or two more until you grow out of this Torture Phase.

But you got me thinking. I myself, and I was a boy, never got fully on board with enjoying torturing small animals. The most I did was burn ants with a magnifying glass and the Sun. But it wasn't like I would listen for the little things to 'Scream' or anything. Then I remember a Dream I had when I was very little. I led one of my older brothers down to basement where a Bear tore him apart. I was appalled and horrified by it. I did not like the Pain and the Violence at all.

that is interesting in a scholastic way. Why are some people attracted and fascinated by Pain and Violence, and others repulsed?

Now, my Parents did believe in Spanking, and so it is not as though Violence and Pain were Unknown and Unheard of by me. Hmmmm, what about you? Were you and your siblings ever spanked for being bad. Did you have a first hand experience of what Pain felt like, and did you have some experience of having Empathy for a brother or sister who was spanked? Maybe you have to come in close personal contact with pain so that you can recognize it as a bad thing. But now I am only guessing.

Please, tell us more, so that we can better fill out the situation and no more about what we are trying to talk about.

I'm 21 and a girl, John is short for Johna, but I've always hated the name. I think that if I was going to grow out of it I would have already, but the urge has become easier to handle more recently. As a child I rarely hurt animals which was strange considering that I was fine to hurt other kids and adults, I found animals somewhat fascinating in the way that they could build entire society's without communication.

As for your question on why some people are fascinated by pain and others aren't I think we are all in some way fascinated by pain even those that are scared by even the sight of blood because pain is such a strange concept, a feeling that we have that we have been trained to believe is horrible.

When I was younger spanking was a form of punishment for my and my sister I remember having so much built anger and not knowing what to do with it, my sister decided to take that anger out on a cardboard doll she made of my dad and I decided to take it out on my sister. I never remember feeling bad for my sister when she was spanked maybe it was because I knew that any spanking she got I would get equally as many.

John_smith wrote:I'm 21 and a girl, John is short for Johna, but I've always hated the name. I think that if I was going to grow out of it I would have already, but the urge has become easier to handle more recently. As a child I rarely hurt animals which was strange considering that I was fine to hurt other kids and adults, I found animals somewhat fascinating in the way that they could build entire society's without communication.

As for your question on why some people are fascinated by pain and others aren't I think we are all in some way fascinated by pain even those that are scared by even the sight of blood because pain is such a strange concept, a feeling that we have that we have been trained to believe is horrible.

When I was younger spanking was a form of punishment for my and my sister I remember having so much built anger and not knowing what to do with it, my sister decided to take that anger out on a cardboard doll she made of my dad and I decided to take it out on my sister. I never remember feeling bad for my sister when she was spanked maybe it was because I knew that any spanking she got I would get equally as many.

Hi .... I wish I knew what you liked to be called.

It is good to know you are female. It seems that Males, because in evolutionary terms they used to fight a lot more between each other, have developed a sense for Risk vs Benefit when it comes to aggression. Males tend to limit their fights to Enough is Enough, and for two reasons. the First is 'quit while you're ahead', that even in winning a fight there are still risks, such as breaking your own hand or foot in hitting or kicking somebody. the Second reason is that the guy you are fighting is often in your own Social Group and may be necessary in helping Your Group to Attack or Defend against Outside Groups. So you want to Teach 'em a Lesson, NOT kill or maim him. You seem to like animals and have insights into them. Have you ever read Conrad Lorenz, who wrote books on animal behavior (classics in the literature). He pointed this Aggression Thing out as it differs between Predator and Non-Predator animals -- that when dangerous predator animals fight each other, they exercise caution and inhibitions and so often their violent encounters do not end with fatalities or even with serious injury. But the None Predators seem to go Crazy on each other, for instance, Stags (boy deers) will kill each other during mating season -- literally, sometimes BOTH stags will die from wounds. Women, are like the None Predators. Women do not seem to have the Same built in Cautions and Inhibitions as men. I remember back in High School the boys were always alarmed at how Intense a fight between Girls could get... it would seem crazy to us. And so Perceptions and Impulses are different between men and women. So it is not surprising that we perceive these things differently.

Yes, at 21 you are at least getting close to the Hump. You still have a few years to go. Early Adult Onset Schizophrenia, which is what they used to call it, but since they have rewritten the Diagnostic Guides, who knows what they call it now, but, I believe that Window continues on until you are about 24 or 26. I am encouraged by your saying that you have been able to handle the 'urge' more easily lately. This seems to indicate that your impulsive fantasies are manageable and not escalating (which they would be if you were still heading for a Psychotic Break).

As for Living with your Urge, well, you know, I believe many people are carrying around urges they must continually manage. For instance, I have heard that a great many people walk around fantasizing about sex... I've heard that some men have a sexual thought every 45 seconds. And still the vast majority of men are able to keep it under wraps and not come across as being too depraved. Soldiers coming back from War Zones often for the entire rest of their lives see all of their social surroundings from the viewpoint of battlefield kill zones, but they are able to let THAT float in the background while they manage to behave normally. Thank God that I have a benign mental distraction. when I was young I learned how to fly, and so now when my mind is unoccupied it seems like I am in an airplane ducking and dodging around the puffy white clouds.

but your Pain thing does seem sufficiently real. and you don't seem prone or eager to actually do lasting harm to anybody. Perhaps you should find a Group of Like-Minded People. the popular idea of what such a Group would be has been molded by the Media. But I am sure the Movies and TV shows got it all wrong. What Everybody needs to understand is that Hollywood Screenwriters for the most part have no idea what they are writing about and so almost nothing on the TV and Movies actually reflects True Reality. But there are Groups where people are encouraged to inflict or receive pain in a safe controlled manner. Of course, it is not a Small Town thing... nothing that would be sponsored by the local Church. but in any Big City it would probably be easy to find the right Society for your needs.

Oh, but this is an Anger Management Forum. I forgot to ask... are you actively angry with anybody or anything now. You seem to be quite calm and steady. You don't seem to be carrying any Childhood Grudges. So you may have no severe Anger Issues. However, a lot of people succumb quite often to Irritability and because Irritability seems so much inside the envelope of Normalcy people don't consider it a problem. But if you know any Irritable People then you know how annoying Irritability can be. If People ARE Irritable from time to time, well, it would not take much Personal Work to Fix That. But you may not even be Irritable.

So, except for that pesky little urge of yours, you may actually be doing quite fine.

I prefer to be called John it's much simpler. Thank you so much for the advice it's good to know that at least to an extent these feelings are normal and they might go away with age. I've never read the Conrad lerenz though I might now.

Its strange to think that so many people are living with an urge and how brilliantly they can learn to hide it, a brilliantly terrifying thought. I will try finding a group of like minded people though I can't say for sure if I'll like it much.

As for the question about anger yes most the time I am quite a calm person, I have found ways to hide myself in my own head but I get extremely explosive anger in times that seem to make no sense. I have been known to break doors, windows, lights and pull out door handles and built in hangers over someone spilling something.

I was in a state like this when I was around 9 years old where I strangled my sister almost to the point of passing out. Of course other people have been know to do things like that so I could truely have absuluty no problem with anger. I ended up rambling on more then I wanted to so thank you again.

Dear John,

Oh, yes. You DO have an anger problem, and it is quite serious. You see, Anger Problems divide down into roughly 4 categories, and from First to Worst they are
1) Calm and Peaceful Saints who wonder why everyone else is always so freaked out angry with them. Often these Saints are insensitive to others and provoke anger by being annoyingly judgmental and that kind of thing. It is not much of a problem but still can be worked on.

2) People who aren’t really considered over the line ‘angry’ but who are moody, peevish and irritable a lot more than they like, or their friends, family and co-workers like. It’s nothing they would ever go to jail for or get fired for, but chronic Irritability can contribute to Relationship Problems, even divorce. And so they should take it seriously and work on it.

3) Angry People who are Violence Inhibited. They will jump up and down cuss and swear, but they will not strike out at people or bust up property. Their anger is mostly Thunder and no Lightening. All Bark and no Bite. Most of the People who come to Anger Management are in this Category. Because they Appear so Threatening people worry that they can be Dangerous. So often they are Fired from work because of their Threatening Language. Spouses worry about escalation and get divorces. Friends stop inviting them to parties. This is a very serious form of Anger and needs to be worked on. Nobody can live a happy life who has these kind of episodes even just once or twice each year. It just seriously scares everybody too much.

4) Rage. You have Rage. Rage can lash out and attack people. Rage can bust up property. People go to Jail for rage. It is a lot like Category Number Three but apparently the Rage Anger is more drenched in Adrendaline – the Fight or Flight Hormone. If you allow yourself to really get worked up until you get a full head of Adrenaline it is possible to go into a Rage Blackout. There have been stories about Rage Blackouts concerning seemingly mild mannered office workers. They get as red as a beat and get crazy eyed and start swearing like a demon from hell will tear their office apart, throwing office chairs through windows and tossing telephones at the wall so hard that they poke through to the other side. Everyone scatters to get away, literally running for their lives. And then when the entire office looks like a bomb went off or a tornado swept through, the Office Worker will just suddenly stop, and go into a Daze. After about 20 seconds they will seem to shake it off and then look around and say “What the hell happened here?”, and then Security whisks in and drags them off to Jail. But most Rage is not That Bad, but it could be. If your Adrenaline Level is already going high enough to override normal inhibitions, then you are only an inch away from a Rage Blackout.

Now, of course, you should do everything for your Anger that Categories 1 2 and 3 would do, but for Category 4, to get out of That, you only need to know how to Control your Adrenaline. Lucky for you that is relatively easy. You see, while most Angry People will say that they Exploded all at once, really, if you actually monitor yourself you will find that from Trigger to Full Blown Adrenaline Rush takes about 5 Seconds. So that gives you Five Seconds to Catch it. However, what complicates it is that often we do not even KNOW Consciously that we have been triggered until after our Body has already been Reacting for 2 or 3 Seconds. It is like somebody calls you a Bad Name and you can actually count 1 2 3 before you KNOW in your Head that you have just been insulted, but you are already almost completely Primed and ready to go on Adrenaline. So you can’t rely on monitoring your Feelings and Thinking for Anger, because that is mostly already too late. What you need to watch for is the First Sign in your Body that Adrenaline is being release. THAT IS THAT YOUR TEETH CLENCH. YOUR JAW MUSCLES TIGHTEN. One Lady who wrote in says that she can’t get angry without Closing Her Mouth first, and so she only has to keep her mouth open (mouth breathing will do that for you). Anyway, the First Instant that you realize you just Clenched your Teeth or Closed your Mouth, simple RELAX that reflex and take a deep breath. THAT turns off the Adrenaline. It seems that the Jaw Muscles are right at the Juncture of the Brain and the Blood Stream that brings the Adrenaline up into the rest of the body. By relaxing the Jaw Clench you are sending an Overriding Conscious Signal to Shut down the adrenal gland that is pumping out that “flight or Fight” hormone. Every Primitive Man must have known about this (because sometimes that Stick in the Path looks like a Snake, but once you know the difference you want to calm back down quick), but Modern Man somehow forgot about it. But reminding people about it is the Noble Work we do here on the Anger Management Page.

Oh, if you need to practice with your Adrenaline to experience what that First Feeling feels like, then you just need to take a Pin and INTEND to stab it into your hand. It seems that everyone hates being stabbed with pins so much that you don’t actually have to stab yourself. You just have to Seriously threaten to Stab yourself and that does the same thing. You will feel yourself clench your teeth, and then just unclench them. DON’T WAIT! Even that much adrenaline will make you nervous and jumpy for a while. If you let it run for more than a second or two, you might find yourself punching a hole in the whole for no good reason at all.

Oh this is actually quite interesting. I have wondered for a while if I have had anger problem for a while, but I thought that my anger was normal. Only few people have ever suggested I might have an anger problem (mostly family) because more often then not I am quite a calm person. I rarely explode infront of friends mostly because they tend to anger me less.

I'd never really thought that uncleanching my jaw might help. It's been pointed out to me that I often clench my jaw even in situations that might not be aggressive like stroking a dog or even hugging someone. Recently I was talking with my family as to why I might do this so much, but we couldn't think of a reason why.

When I am angry I have a tendency to tense every muscle in my body. I will clench my jaw and shake and put my hands into fists. So far the best ways I have to stop my self from having outbursts is by causing myself pain like pushing my thumbs into my palms.

John_smith wrote:Oh this is actually quite interesting. I have wondered for a while if I have had anger problem for a while, but I thought that my anger was normal. Only few people have ever suggested I might have an anger problem (mostly family) because more often then not I am quite a calm person. I rarely explode infront of friends mostly because they tend to anger me less.

I'd never really thought that uncleanching my jaw might help. It's been pointed out to me that I often clench my jaw even in situations that might not be aggressive like stroking a dog or even hugging someone. Recently I was talking with my family as to why I might do this so much, but we couldn't think of a reason why.

When I am angry I have a tendency to tense every muscle in my body. I will clench my jaw and shake and put my hands into fists. So far the best ways I have to stop my self from having outbursts is by causing myself pain like pushing my thumbs into my palms.

Hi John

Now that you mention it, I have also noticed that I will clench my teeth even sometimes when I just pet one of my cats. Maybe it is an Instinctual Reflex because after all you are reaching for something that looks just like a wild animal. Interactions with people too, because you can never be quite sure when you approach somebody whether you will be accepted or hostilely rejected. So that is why we have the Option to Relax the Clench Reflex. It is like our Body is telling us that we are in fact Taking a Risk, but we can choose to accept that risk... and pet the kitty cat.

But, yes, apparently you really DID need to hear what I had to say. So, remember when you clench, or in your case tighten up all over, take some deep breaths through your mouth and shake it off.

But, remember, even one or two Anger Episodes, even Category 3s where you don't bust up the furniture or kill anybody, are enough to hurt your Social and family Reputation. For that you would need to become familiar with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Principles. Basically you have to stop indulging in thinking that works you up in a negative aggressive hostile way, and adopt the habit of thinking in goal oriented "what is the best thing I can say or do right now" ways. Also you need to review your Behavioral Habits for anything that you do flexibly that annoys other people. the only way to make Cognitive Behavioral Therapy work for you is to keep it in mind and practice it every day, like playing the violin or drawing pen and ink. I was able to do it by reading most every book in the literature. There is some repetition but it is also true that you get a rich sense of perspective and viewpoint about the Same Topics. the best Anger Management author out there is Ronald Potter-efron. Mostly popular self help books, but he has a few College Textbooks to his credit.

It is a good feeling to know that you have invariable control over yourself, and that you no longer ever have to worry about the Monster jumping out. And people can sense that about you too. You become sure and solid enough to trust all the way down at the animal-creature level. It is not just thinking but people 'feel' good about you.