Can't go into trance

Hi Andy,
What's ME?

Hi Grovelli,

M.E. is the British acronym. It might be better known as Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome CFIDS in other countries.

It's basically when someone is often very tired and they experience flu like symptoms or headaches on a regular basis. There's a massive list of other symptoms as well so it's very hard to diagnose by doctors.

Hope this has made it clearer.

Andy.

HI Andy

I am thinking 'utilization'.

If she can only think of the concept of thinking about her foot, then get her to focus on the concept - the content of her focus really doesn't matter, it's the focus that is important. Whatever she does, encourage it (unless she's hitting you round the head with an umbrella )

I once worked with a woman on a workshop who was extremely 'cerebral'. She was a research scientist and didn't believe in hypnosis. She wanted to experience an arm levitation to 'prove' hypnosis was real.

Trying hard not to panic, I had her keep her eyes on her hand and to study carefully the moment at which it lifted off her leg. I asked her to use all her abilities of observation and concentration because I really didn't want her to miss it. It was about the quickest hand levitation I ever got. (no-one was more surprised than me )

If I had asked her to close her eyes and relax, I think I would have had a much harder time. The trick is to remember what your aim is (in this case dissociation from the hand and unconscious activation) and then use whatever the client brings to achieve that.

In general, whenever there is something that the client is battling against, I tend to try to stop them battling. I'm not 100% sure why, but I think that this creates a 'locked system', with the problem pulling one way and the client the other.

Once the pressure is released, new creative ways around the problem can often be found, sometimes spontaneously by the client.

With this lady, I would be extremely specific about what she wants (in concrete, observable terms) and go for that. Remember that you can often get unconscious change without conscious awareness of it.

I hope this helps,

Roger

Hi Andy

you might also go for prescribing the problem. Tell her that she must strive her hardest NOT to go into a trance and that she should do completely the opposite of whatever you suggest... (nice ambiguity there!)

Good luck

Kathleen

That sounds like great advice, thank you Roger and Kathleen!

I've tried to utilise a bit - telling her that if she only listens to my voice then she must focus on it all the more. I guess more of the same is needed. I also told her that it doesn't matter if she doesn't go into trance because the unconscious will pick things up it needs anyway (I don't know if it's true, but I said it anyway!)

I like the arm levitation idea - going for phenomenon. And the creating a bind of sorts by encouraging resistance to overcome it.

By trying to get her into trance I kind of lost sight of the goals of the session. She basically wants to accept her ME and see the future as being able to recover. So I've been telling stories about this. I might tell Mary's BT Tower story next time (if that's ok Mary!)

The 'shield' inside her head that she talks about is another thing I'd like to resolve. She said that it's always there stopping her doing things that may pose a risk (in other words stopping her tolerating the uncertainty). We talked about how it can get thinner and perhaps disappear. I suggested that instead of it getting smaller it could get bigger and surround her more, somehow unleashing the part that does feel things inside and having a bubble of protection outside (it made sense at the time)..

I've been having another idea though. It may sound strange, but as I have a philosophical background and she has studied philosophy too so I thought I might give it a go. Basically I would talk about the whole Descartes 'I think there for I am' thing in that we don't know anything about reality, we can only believe things - we don't know for sure whether physical objects are merely illusions and so on. And perhaps starting from a clean slate start to build things up again. Perhaps with her eyes closed get her to imagine just being in a kind of void and then start to piece things around this but leaving out the shield... does that sound too weird or even dangerous? Thought it best to pass it by others to see what they think....

Andy.

andy wrote:I might tell Mary's BT Tower story next time (if that's ok Mary!)

Hi Andy,
is this Mary's BT Tower story present in any of the threads?

Hi Grovelli,

Mary's story was in the Uncommon Knowledge newsletter, I don't know if you get this sent to you..

The old newsletters are on the main UK website. I can't see the latest one there though... is it there Roger?

Andy

Here it is:

When I was a child, my uncle was the head chef in the revolving restaurant at the top of the BT tower. For my birthday, he organised a family party there and told me that when I arrived he would let me be the one to switch on the revolving floor. This was a really exciting prospect for me and I couldn't wait to do it. I imagined it over and over again in my mind, what it would be like.

When the time came I flicked the switch and was disappointed to notice that the movement of the floor was incredibly slow, almost imperceptible. My child's mind had anticipated it to be more fun, like a fair-ground ride.
My uncle explained that it needed to move at just the right pace for the comfort of the diners and to avoid plates and glasses spinning off the tables. I had imagined that the view out of the window would speed past, but instead, it hardly moved at all.

I sat with my face against the window, fixing my gaze on the Crystal Palace tower in the distance, willing it to move. I became transfixed by my disappointment. Finally, my mother took me away from the window and I began to get drawn in to the enjoyable business of my birthday party, presents, games, conversation and generally just having fun. After some time I remembered my pre-occupation with the revolving floor and glanced out of the window.

Where was the Crystal Palace Tower?

The view had completely changed. I ran to the other side of the restaurant and sure enough, there it was. It was fun to notice that this change had seemed to happen all by itself, almost as though it was waiting for me to stop watching it. My Grandma said, 'well you know a watched pot never boils'.

RogerE wrote:It was fun to notice that this change had seemed to happen all by itself, almost as though it was waiting for me to stop watching it. My Grandma said, 'well you know a watched pot never boils'.

Roger,
isn't the above in contradiction with
I had her keep her eyes on her hand and to study carefully the moment at which it lifted off her leg. I asked her to use all her abilities of observation and concentration because I really didn't want her to miss it. It was about the quickest hand levitation I ever got. ?
Ciao

Grovelli,

I would say that the first example - in the story - is about being patient for things beyond our control to change. If you watch paint dry you'll be very bored by the end of it.

The second example - the hand levitation - is about splitting the conscious responce from the unconscious responce. Both of these come from the client, but they are suprised by the unconscious result.

Andy.

Indeed Andy. Comparing apples and oranges.

Sorry Roger, now I can see the difference thanks to Andy's explanation, so...Andy, if you were to use Mary's BT Tower story, would you use it to help your client see she doesn't need to focus too much on her problem because changes will happen by themselves?

I see what you're getting at Grovelli...

In terms of the pattern for the ME sufferers purpose:

It does require a change from inside. However, this is a very slow change and cannot be overnight, no matter what miracles hypnotherapists perform, so patience is needed. It may also come from the outside though in terms of nutrition.

Inducing an arm levitation is something that's instant and so induces feelings of wonder if studied.

Increaing white blood cells and boosting the immune system in an ME sufferer needs lots of time.. The story would be used to help with the acceptance that it will take a while and studying the progress too indepth might make things worse. But these long term changes will take place on that subconscious level and the results will show themselves eventually.

Andy.

I agree that this is long term or perhaps a life time of a new kind of personal care. As I have written elsewhere on this Forum, I have had multiple health problems that have been my first area of concern since I learned hypnotherapy last year.

Of course, I can't prove that any hypnotherapy has been the cause of great improvement in my health but that's what I believe.

In the few years before I studied this, I had been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia (similar to M.E.), after 20 years of ulcerative colitis had two major surgeries to remove my colon and then do reconstructive surgery, been diagnosed with Bipolar disorder, told I would never work again, and been put on several medications. I was in constant pain from the Fibro and a zombie from the meds (but no thoughts of suicide) and not feeling too happy about the furture. I also have a history of sexual abuse and rape starting from early childhood and a disrupted family life in my early years. Wow, was my brain ever a jumble.

I experienced profound trance and light trance during training so that was encouraging. I also had a high level of motivation as I saw this as a 'last' hope. Often during sessions I would have to stop because of extreme physical discomfort but I kept trying. I had to write a script for class and because I was curious about them, I studied up on chakras and wrote one to clear these energy points. It worked like a charm for me. I leapt from my bed with a burst of energy and a big smile!

I have since stopped most of my meds, at one time stopped all of them, now recognise rare occaisions where I allow myself to lean on them. I experience so little discomfort from the Fibro (and heel spurs) that I could almost say there is none. Not work, HA! I look after my one year old granddaughter part-time, do the home, house and family stuff, study, run my hypnotherapy business and do volunteer work.

I searched out other scripts that 'spoke' to me and have made them a part of my life. I usually feel now that I do not go into trance as well as I used to, but that's probably just that phenomenon of "I heard every word you said, so I couldn't have been in a trance". I do it anyway. I accept it into my system because that's what I choose to do and see it as important, or more so, as drinking water and breathing fresh air to give me good health.

I have had clients also who worry they don't go into trance but exhibit every sign of it and will say things after like, I just feel so relaxed, and then come back and report some change in their life. One woman said that and then immediately blurted out, now I know why I overeat.

I think its important to be positive in our expectations of what will happen, that it will happen, that they need to focus on it happening and to work to override any negative thoughts that may arise about any part of the session, not just during the session but after. I think a comment that was made to me in response to another issue about people resisting is true - on one hand, they want to, on the other hand they are nervous.

My trainer at the gym told me that I looked terrified when I first went there. I was! After all that surgery and the pain of Fibro, I was terrified of what might happen to my body. I was so afraid of more pain. She started me slow and easy and maybe that is a way to go with your client. Just break her in with relaxation and something quite innocuous so she isn't trying so hard to go into trance. Build up a really strong rapport. Offer lots of praise for how well she is doing during and after the session.

I wonder also if there is abuse in her background that she has so much trouble letting go. I casually offer a blanket to all my clients (its right there) (in case they have some issues) and also let them know that I will be sitting this far away and will not be touching them unless I tell them in advance. I know how keyed up I would be feeling in the same situation.

I look forward to hearing more about your client. Its good to hear how determined you are to help her. This is so much about creativity, isn't it?

Good luck,
Sylvia