New member- anger/depression..PLEASE any help/opinions??

**Posts:** 5 · by **fozzy** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:57 pm

Hi. I am brand new to this forum having just put in a search because I've got to the stage where I need some help. I am in the UK.

I was put on cipralex (escilatopram) in January of this year. The circumstances were a serious operation which had gone wrong - leaving me unable to walk properly, stress at work and stress at home. I had no experience of antidepressants and was unsure and embarrassed to have to even ask about them let alone take them.
There have been many stresses at home and this appears to be the outlet of my anger….I do not react this way at work. Some of the stresses, not all I openly admit, are genuine serious problems which I would like to know how I can react better to. I don't know if I need to go into too much detail but my step-son (then 13) stole from me, broke into my car, got convicted for criminal (graffiti) damage and basically refused to stop. After being told he wasn't trustworthy enough to be left by himself in the house he then tried to break into that too. His mother does little to correct the problems and even supports his criminal activity. I find this all extremely stressful and my patience with it all ran out a long time ago - but on several occasions it has run out in the wrong way.
I had become more and more angry...what I've heard called 'the red mist' i.e. I don't know what I'm doing when it happens. although I am not ashamed of my OPINIONS during these times (i.e. I stick to my beliefs that his behaviour is wrong etc.) I am ashamed of the way that it comes out.
Originally after 2 or 3 major anger outbursts I saw my GP (with advice from my partner who suggested it might be depression) and got onto the tablets. I feel that I rather ‘spoon-fed’ the doctor, i.e. that I suggested it was depression and asked about tablets, I don’t believe he did much of an assessment to in any way confirm whether I was suitable or whether they would help.
The anger had been severe....very very angry outbursts at my partner, calling her names which I don't actually mean (I love her to bits and wouldn't want to lose her for anything) and, although I haven't hit her as in punched (and don't think I will), we had had the odd shoving match and on one occasion we slapped each other - I think - during a row. I wasn't proud of this and did not want it to continue, but my anger felt out of control.
It was difficult to describe but it gave me pain in my legs - sounds weird, but they would tense up in my calf muscles at the worst time. Just thinking about the situation and getting angry I could feel it start to rise up me and found it unstoppable.
The triggers would always be the same thing - we never, ever fall out about anything else but this one thing/person we are so miles apart on still brings on the anger.
Initially, I thought the tablets helped. I went through a period of success, with two major dips in which I felt so depressed and alone that I wanted to take the whole box. I don't believe I said that or acted like that for attention, I believe I felt like it and was close to doing it in some ways although the main part of me said no and I just sat there crying.
After those episodes I think from memory that the next 2 to 3 months my behaviour was better and kind of what I expected from using the tablets.

Now...why am I writing for help? Well, I am looking for answers to many questions and if you have still had the patience to read this far, then you may be able to help me.

I have suffered two very bad anger attacks aimed at my partner in about the last 2 months. BOTH have occurred when I have been quite ill, my body has been low and my energy level non-existent and my tiredness extremely high. The first occasion I think I pushed her again whilst she was arguing with me and coming towards me in my 'personal space' if you like. I shouted, swore and didn’t have a clue where I was or what I would do. After a few hours the anger disappears and I see what I have done and think of myself as an idiot and how to stop it, how to apologise and how to start again. BUT, it did occur to me that I was quite ill/sick and that may be related.
Once again this week I have been quite ill and on Wednesday I had an absolute fit of anger over the same issue and ended up grabbing a small stick which was to hand (like a garden plant support) and whacked it down in front of her....I truly believe I had no intention for it to actually hit but it did hit her forearm and it hurt her. She was upset and annoyed and so was I...so much so that I began to hit myself with it on the forearm and legs, causing some quite painful marks and a 6-inch bleeding scratch/cut to my leg.
Once again, after a couple of hours I calmed down and just stayed amazed and upset that I had done it. Then worrying not only how to stop it happening again, but also how to start over because, quite rightly, she is at the end of her tether and now needs a reason to stay - a belief it will be different.
It occurred to me within minutes of calming down that once again this had happened when I was ill.

My questions for help/advice/discussion are:
(1) Is there any known link between taking escilatopram for this long (10 months) and it having any NEGATIVE effect when the body is low...i.e. can it make things worse? I am definitely WORSE at those low times.
(2) Related to that question, what are opinions on either coming off them or changing? This was only supposed to be a temporary thing and now that my failed operation has been corrected (at least I am 95% of the way there) I had hoped to be non-dependent.
(3) Not related to the above experience, can anybody tell me if my tablets are known to cause a loss of sex drive? This is not impotence, I am still capable and willing and wanting to, but my drive is considerably down, I don't feel ‘it’ like I did before the tablets by any means and don’t feel like instigating it anywhere near like I would have before.
(4) If these tablets are not controlling my anger at the lowest times, what other methods are there? What advice would anyone have to help me through this? I can just say that I AM ASHAMED of my behaviour, I DO NOT like the way I am when it happens, I DO NOT like most of the things I say when it happens, I know that I CAUSE many problems by it happening and I know for sure that I LOVE my partner and want her to feel SAFE. I DO NOT, absolutely DO NOT want to become a wife-beater. I DO NOT want to be looking in a few months at a situation when I have done something worse - although I don't believe that I will, when I read my own admissions here I can see that things are getting worse and that anyone else reading this can see a natural progression. I do nor condone any of this kind of behaviour and would be delighted if I could just be 'me'.
(5) A general question…on first taking anti-depressants, is it just a cliché that they are supposed to make you feel ‘up’?? I took them, still am taking them, and felt no different. I think I expected to be ‘happy’ whereas all that happened was that I would take them every day and just hope that the next ‘trigger’ would be stopped by them. There was no ‘buzz’, no ‘up’ no ‘smiley happy me’ …have I just been watching too many soap operas and hospital dramas?

Sorry this was so long but without being honest, and without all the facts, I don't think joining this forum would be worthwhile.

Many thanks.

**Posts:** 2522 · by **kfedouloff** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:47 am

Hi fozzy, welcome to the forum!

Other members who know more about this medication will no doubt comment on known effects.

After all the experiences you have had, do you think that you are now able to recognise the signs that show that the "red mist" is about to come down? You mentioned, for instance, the tension in your calf muscles - does this happen every time? Do you get any other signals that it is "about to" happen?

Kathleen

**Posts:** 5 · by **fozzy** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:25 am

Hi, thanks for replying. the answer is no, not really. In the past before medication I could feel that tension come on but the tablets seemed to take that bit away. I do however get very hot in the head during the anger, and I feel unable to walk away. Also, what I forgot to say on the first post is that I sometimes feel I am goaded/provoked into getting worse.... i.e. in an argument I may throw something (not hard, but innocent kind of you know, first thing to hand) in her general direction. She will then say "Oh Go on then, throw something else" and to me that is like a red rag to a bull. I will react with "What else do you want?" and it'll go from there. I know that all I need at the trigger point is a hug, a cuddle and I will calm down. I have explained this many times to her but, and I understand why, she finds it impossible to be loving if I am gonna lose it. But really that is all I need, and I know it stops me degenerating into something far worse.

**Posts:** 2522 · by **kfedouloff** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:59 am

Hi fozzy

It sounds like both of you are caught up in the pattern, not just you. You have a certain "ritual" that you both go through, almost like a dance. First I do this. Then you do that. Then I do this. etc.

I am interested that you KNOW that if, at the trigger point (am I correct in understanding that the trigger point her is as you throw the first, "innocent" thing?) you were to get a hug or a cuddle, you would calm down. If this pattern is so all pervasive, how did you discover that this intervention would let you calm down?

Kathleen

**Posts:** 5 · by **fozzy** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:45 pm

Hi, yeah, I understand - how did I discover that? A while ago I was really angry but managed to hold on to it, I asked her if she would just come and hold me and it amkes me feel so much better. Just continuing to participate in the argumnet winds me up further and doesn;t get us anywhere. In a way I wish someone - her of course would be bset - could just stop me at the trigger point. Does that make sense? I just feel now that being close at that time rather than further apart would be the best thing.

**Posts:** 2522 · by **kfedouloff** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:17 pm

Hi fozzy, that was a lucky discovery then! So now what you need is some way of letting her know that NOW'S THE TIME FOR A CUDDLE. And it needs to be some signal which is OUTSIDE of the usual routine... and she needs to know to look out for it...

Maybe the two of you could discuss what the signal could be - a special gesture, or a code word, or maybe it would be an object... it's best if you yourselves identify what would be a good signal

And then you can work out what her response should be. For instance, when she sees the signal, should she ASK you "Do you want a cuddle or a hug?" and wait for your confirmation, or should she, on seeing the signal, come straight over and hug you?

Should she remain silent while doing this? (i.e. this is not a moment for continuing the argument).

Kathleen

**Posts:** 5 · by **fozzy** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:30 pm

Good suggestion. One which I have tried talking about BUT I haven't suggested there should be a 'code' or something. I have up to now expected her to be psychic and just know!

Re : being silent...I don't know. I just wanna feel loved and the hug does that, but anyting like "It'll be alright" would do me too.

**Posts:** 2522 · by **kfedouloff** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:55 am

Hi fozzy

Have you had a chance to discuss this with your partner yet?

Kathleen

**Posts:** 5 · by **fozzy** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:06 pm

No, but we have pencilled it in for tonight so maybe...the trails of having 4 kids around. No 'simple' time!

**Posts:** 143 · by **BEwildered** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:55 pm

Hello.

Don't know if I could add any advice for you about the anger thing, but in regard to the tablets, doctors are very very eager to hand out pills. One of my family memebers went to the doc about something or other and came back with a prescription for anti-d's. One of my flatmates went about a sore ankle or something and was asked if he was depressed.

The type of tablets you have can sometimes make some people prone to anger and violence. Certainly with the length of time you've been on them you should have noticed some difference in yourself I'd have thought. Wonder if this means you didn't need them in the first place (?). The other thing about GPs is that they will not tell you anything about what they are giving you unless you ask them.

I'm no doctor, but I've read a fair bit of stuff about these things, and I have my own thoughts and experience to go on and those of some of my friends.

It's supposed to be pretty hard to come off them, even though they say they aren't addictive. There's loads of people out there who wouldn't agree with that school of thought, through personal experience.

**Posts:** 1 · by **wrapped up in books** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:49 am

Dear Fozzy

I've just joined the forum by chance as I was looking up everything possible about depression and escitalopram, which I have been taking for three months now, the last two months of which at maximum dose. I notice you made your post some time ago, so my response may be irrelevant by now but I thought I would write anyway with anything I know that may help you, just in case.

Escitalopram does have a loss of libido as a side effect, and also some people experience a difficulty achieving orgasm.

If you want to come off escitalopram, then the GP should arrange a gradual withdrawal programme - it is important this is done because withdrawal can cause dizzines/pins and needles and graduated withdrawal should minimise any negative side effects. If your own GP isn't sympathetic, you should hopefully be able to arrange to see another doctor - I recommend this, doctors are people and there are good and bad, so try and seek alternative advice if you feel your doctor isn't fulfilling your needs. I haven't seen my own doctor for a while as she was ill-informed about depression and failed to treat it when my depression was less severe, meaning that I only sought help again when I reached breakdown point, the memory of which terrifies me.

It is a long, slow haul for me at the moment - I have not had a "happy" effect from the tablets, but they have made me more functional. Previously, I could barely get out of bed, was slurring my speech, my voice disappeared to a husk and my short term memory was appalling. I'm nowhere near better, sadly, but I am at least semi-functional now. Like you, when I am at my own type of low-point, which for me is either hysterical tears of extreme frustration or inability to move, that escitalopram can exacerbate it. I find myself incapable of controlling irrational demands to my caring and loving partner which in turn increases my frustration.

I understand from a recent "Blue Notes" column in The Guardian that effectively there are no such thing as "happy pills" and that anti-depressants just restore normality. I don't know if that's true, and in truth I don't know what normality is for me. I do know that like you i do not feel happy taking anti-depressants, but they remain a necessity for me to function, even though I can't work at the moment, and I hope that my situation will improve with time.

Talking openly with your wife will probably be the only way to help control your "red mist", but if you find that hard unaided then perhaps you and you wife could attend counselling together.

**Posts:** 78 · by **yoghurtraisin** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:10 pm

Hi Fozzy,

I have just read some of your thread - I am afraid that I haven;t read it all because I am having trouble concentrating, BUT I did read about your angry outbursts.

I too have had the same problem on many occassions - to the outside world, i seem like a very sweet person, but there are occasions when I get so angry with my partner that I slap his arms etc... I am not a violent person in any way at all, but when I am v tired and stressed and my partner gets fed up or says something provative I can;t cope and I get more and more angry. I wind myself up with the anger, until I feel that i am going to explode. Last time, I started to pull my hair out I was so angry. I am on cipralex and it hasn;t really helped that much to be honest. I am worried about losing control. I used to be a very passive person but now i have learnt how to be angry, I lose control.

I feel ashamed

**Posts:** 1 · by **Xanthe Blue** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:48 pm

Hi

I have been taking Escitalopram for nearly six months. Like you, I was suffering from bouts of terrible anger, usually associated with drinking which I have been doing a lot of since my father died three years ago. I was taking things out on my partner and being really terrible towards him and like you always felt so guilty afterwards. I got help when he was on the point of leaving.

When I am like that, I am definitely not in my right mind. I have also self-harmed - one episode very badly which landed me in hospital and put my partner through hell - although I wouldn't physically hurt another human being and thankfully haven't ever done so, even at my worst moments.

The tablets have helped me get on an even keel - not so many ups and downs - but I wouldn't say I am happy at all and can still feel very depressed at times. They have helped the anger bouts though. It's funny but I always believed that depression was anger turned in on yourself, not outwards towards other people.

I have heard that a mixture of anti-depressants and behavioural cognitive therapy can be really good together.

New member- anger/depression..PLEASE any help/opinions??

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