Helpers Corner: Anger And the Frustrated Life

**Posts:** 1152 · by **Leo Volont** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:26 pm

The advice we give out here on this page, if anyone actually listens to it and follows it, could have very significant ramifications – good ramifications if the advice isgood, but… well, the consequences of giving out ‘inappropriate’ advice could lead to seriously adverse consequences, and it makes me ponder and reflect sometimes on whether I’m getting it all right.

Now, of course, like most of the Helpers, I could play it very safe. I could just give out the kind of ‘bumper sticker’ catch phrases that are common currency in the Anger Management Field, and most of the time those time honored but cliqued pieces of advice have to do with controlling anger when it emerges. And that is good. People need to be able to control their anger when it emerges. But what has me wondering is the advice I give to people who write in and, well, as they describe their situations, I can see that just the basic layout of their lives is troubled and dysfunctional. Their lives are almost designed around inherent frustrations and embedded difficulties. They are asking for a way to be happy, but they are clinging to a Life in some House of Horrors. They wouldn’t even need Anger Management Advice if only they were in a better situation.

Now, does the Helper give only advice on how the House of Horrors People can make the best of dealing with all the Frustrations and Aggravations of being in their chosen House of Horror, OR, does the helper find it as simple common sense to present the advice that, if they look closely at their lives and possibilities, that it might be entirely possible that they have the Free Will option to simply walk out of their House of Horrors, and put together a Better Life where there will be a great deal less to make them Angry, and where they won’t be keyed up with stress, anxieties and aggravations all the time, which only makes it easier for Angry Episodes to ‘trigger’. You know, even small things can cause a Great Explosion, if you are living life on a Powder Keg.

Now, I can foresee a problem even with that kind of advice – that is with telling people to change their situations. I once heard the saying “Wherever you go, you can’t leave yourself behind”. What it means is that you can escape every problem but the ones that you bring along with yourself… in your baggage, so to speak. For instance, people leave bad relationships only to start up new bad relationships. People leave horrible jobs just to get jobs almost exactly like the ones they left… Or People who hate cold winters move from Chicago down to ‘tornado alley’ with its torrid heat and swarms of killer bees and carnivorous mosquitos. Jumping from the proverbial ‘frying pan’ won’t help if we land in the ‘fire’. The trick is to replace the bad choices with good choices, and not with other bad or even worse choices.

It makes giving advice kind of tricky, doesn’t it?

**Posts:** 1299 · by **bert_ernie** » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:20 pm

from what i've seen, your advice is usually good. i inevitably learn something just from reading threads you post in.

but i kind of get what you mean. sometimes i feel like when i give advice it doesn't actually matter how good the advice is. it's more about the person who is asking for help. there are people that are kind of life's losers. they bite & scratch at anyone who tries to help them. or they just want to complain or think about things rather than actually fix anything. hey maybe i'm like that too. but it makes me realize that there's only so much you can do. some people are just a lot easier to help than others. with some people i just start to feel out of my depth talking to them. it becomes less about just giving advice & more about managing conflict or the games they pull you into.

**Posts:** 1152 · by **Leo Volont** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:51 pm

bert_ernie wrote:….there are people that are kind of life's losers. they bite & scratch at anyone who tries to help them. or they just want to complain or think about things rather than actually fix anything. hey maybe i'm like that too. but it makes me realize that there's only so much you can do. some people are just a lot easier to help than others. with some people i just start to feel out of my depth talking to them. it becomes less about just giving advice & more about managing conflict or the games they pull you into.

Hi B&E

Long time, no see. I missed talking with you.

I’ve noticed one thing about myself, and advice given to me by respected people I have known. Well, at first… and maybe for years or even decades, that it may be as though I am completely ignoring it. But I have a good memory… and so do a lot of people. Something FINALLY happens to make me appreciate the advice – really, to FINALLY understand what it was talking about. THEN it is useful. THEN it kicks in.

But, yes, if you are giving advice to total idiots, then it may simply be an exercise in futility. But, if the person appears to be coping with life, and appears to remember things, and seems able to reflect upon the past… well, then you Never Know when the Seeds you Planted might sprout up and bear fruit.

So, give advice and cross your fingers.

Oh, thank you for your vote of confidence… it really does help to be appreciated. A True Saint wouldn’t care for such things, but I have a while to go before I am a True Saint…

**Posts:** 1554 · by **laureat** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:38 pm

I think most of you guys are really good
Just to participate , from my experience

I think the mistake sometimes we do is we encurage aggression, we encourage hate

When someone is aggressive mostly is because they feel as a victim: they may have been bullied, cheated from friends, women, or disappointents about job results

Now gettibg hurt for lots of times, becomes aggression
You feel like " I HAD ENOUGH OF THIS "
and it can easily escalate to argumenting, fight, bulling, physical abuse

Because the guy thinis he is a victim, the guy already hates the other

And i think is a mistake when others feep sorry about, and encourage a victim state of mind, it becomes aggression

I think these are the moments when is best to ask simple questions such as
Did you counsult a professional?
Did you talk with your wife about this?
What you think are the best options to choose on this situation?
And stuff like that to only help the guy see the situation better instead of encouraging a victim state of mind
It is not a good moment to feel sorry about

It is a moment when a guy simply needs to help see more options to choose ,
Profesional help,
Going at the gym and whstever

But lots of times i see members feelig sorry about
And they interfere too much with decisions people make

Like wtf would someone tell you need to divorce?

**Posts:** 9886 · by **Candid** » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:47 pm

I don't like the expressions 'anger management' or 'controlling anger' because I equate them with repressing or denying anger. Anger is as legitimate an emotion as any other. The so-called 'negative' emotions such as anger, sadness and fear exist to tell us something's wrong so we can do something about it. Repression or denial leave the problem unaddressed, so it usually gets worse; and at the same time starts manifesting in the sufferer as the various forms of mental illness.

Anger will out and too many people are talked into the alternative, swinging from repression = depression to low-level irritability or worse, either of which drive healthy people away from them. Anger just gets bigger when it's denied, until we come out as raging bears over a minor thing because we've been ignoring the major things for too long. Or people simply feel so bad about what they're hiding that they kill themselves to get rid of it.

The only solution is to acknowledge the cause of the anger and express it safely, and as it arises. Healthy people do this naturally. Those of us forced to hide our 'bad' feelings as children have a lot of cumulative anger in our pasts, and that backlog will never go away until it's acknowledged.

**Posts:** 549 · by **McCain** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:24 am

Hey Leo,
I think this is helpful to me.

People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon request, for it often helps us to see our own way more clearly.
- Brendan Francis

Your friend,
McCain

**Posts:** 1554 · by **laureat** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:05 am

McCain wrote:Hey Leo,
I think this is helpful to me.

People who ask our advice almost never take it. Yet we should never refuse to give it, upon request, for it often helps us to see our own way more clearly.
- Brendan Francis

Your friend,
McCain

I think people have their own believes why they do what they do, and try not to interfere with their actions directly
for example I never ask from someone to "FORGIVE" the other
instead I share something I believe is important to understand ,
for example my people in Balkans, have lived too much on dictatorial ideologies, because of communism we had
and so lots of people still don't understand the democratic ideologies,

and even if you ask these people to do something you believe it should be acceptable for example, homosexuals the problem is that doesn't suit to their believes, they find it unacceptable, and would discriminate

the first problem is they have to understand democracy
but it is also a problem because condemnation of the homosexual society all negative statements against them from religions, from parents and watching two men kissing, in my city everyone would laugh at them and would tell each other " look at these two fools "

education does not happen with one simple reply
it has to be a lot of commitment to grow from somebody
to understand the point

**Posts:** 1299 · by **bert_ernie** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:11 pm

Leo Volont wrote:Hi B&E

Long time, no see. I missed talking with you.

I’ve noticed one thing about myself, and advice given to me by respected people I have known. Well, at first… and maybe for years or even decades, that it may be as though I am completely ignoring it. But I have a good memory… and so do a lot of people. Something FINALLY happens to make me appreciate the advice – really, to FINALLY understand what it was talking about. THEN it is useful. THEN it kicks in.

But, yes, if you are giving advice to total idiots, then it may simply be an exercise in futility. But, if the person appears to be coping with life, and appears to remember things, and seems able to reflect upon the past… well, then you Never Know when the Seeds you Planted might sprout up and bear fruit.

So, give advice and cross your fingers.

Oh, thank you for your vote of confidence… it really does help to be appreciated. A True Saint wouldn’t care for such things, but I have a while to go before I am a True Saint…

well i often don't even think they are total idiots. just people where their problems manifest in their interactions with people. which means that it's no longer enough to just give them advice. you have to learn how to interact with them in a way that the interaction will go in a good direction. for their benefit. & unravel their games without getting caught up in their games. how to walk into their maze & lead them out. at times like that i can start to feel like i have no idea what i'm doing. like i'm trying to disarm a nuclear bomb with my year 10 chemistry skills.

but i do agree with your point. that often people may keep your words in mind & get some use out of them later. so whether the advice will be accepted or no, plant the seeds & hope they grow.

anyway, now that i reread your original post, i think this situation i raised is not actually what you were talking about at all. i have walked away on a tangent. haha.

but to your point about do you address the posters presented surface problem, or do you address the wider problem of their whole life. can you not do both? first answer the initial surface layer problem. & then go "but... even though i solved your problem tada, i think i may have noticed that x,y,z are general patterns in your life you may want to look at. lest you return right back where you started."

PS true saints are boring anyway. may our heroes have a little darkness & our villains a little light. well that seems to be what makes the best characters in stories anyway.

**Posts:** 1152 · by **Leo Volont** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:31 pm

laureat wrote:
…… I think the mistake sometimes we do is we encurage aggression, we encourage hate …. it can easily escalate to argumenting, fight, bulling, physical abuse

Of course, we really need to look to de-escalation. If we are being physically attacked, well, THEN it would be appropriate to let the Adrenaline Flow Free and go all Tooth and Nail. But in most Anger Episodes, the better outcome results from simply walking away, quieting down… ‘managing the situation’ consciously.

And then there might be the tendency to Get In Behind the Momentary Anger and Hostility to Encourage Momentous Life Changes. It was probably a mistake to so readily suggest to people to break up with partners or even to get a divorce. That may be Good Advice… after the dust settles and everything cools down. But while everything is still up in the air and feelings are running high… well, us Helpers (myself in particular) should probably exercise more restraint and patience… see how the temporary advice goes, and if it all works out, then there is no need to bring out the Big Hammer.

Anyway, thank you, Lariet… I am glad we had this talk.

**Posts:** 1152 · by **Leo Volont** » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:49 pm

bert_ernie wrote:….you have to learn how to interact with them in a way that the interaction will go in a good direction. for their benefit. & unravel their games without getting caught up in their games…

… do you address the posters presented surface problem, or do you address the wider problem of their whole life. can you not do both? first answer the initial surface layer problem. & then go "but... even though i solved your problem tada, i think i may have noticed that x,y,z are general patterns in your life you may want to look at. lest you return right back where you started."

PS true saints are boring anyway. may our heroes have a little darkness & our villains a little light. well that seems to be what makes the best characters in stories anyway.

Wow! With some practice you could become a really good writer! That stuff is essentially really good... one can see the Thought Structure and the Inspiration behind it. I like your last point about Shady Saints and Villains with a spot of Light. It make me think of my common complaint about Formula Hollywood Movies… that in Real Life the Lines between Good Guys and Bad Guys are not nearly so bold, deep and certain. Intentions, Wishes, and Motives are never entirely Black, or even entirely Pure White. Movies rarely show the Wide Middle Ground. People come into Conflict, that’s sure, but it is rarely about issues of Good and Evil. When it is about ‘who gets the girl?’… why does anybody have to be the ‘bad guy’? Two Good Guys could fight over the same girl too, no? and it would probably make for a better movie. Hmmmm… B&E… maybe you should write a Screen Play…

**Posts:** 1299 · by **bert_ernie** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:20 pm

Leo Volont wrote:Wow! With some practice you could become a really good writer! That stuff is essentially really good... one can see the Thought Structure and the Inspiration behind it. I like your last point about Shady Saints and Villains with a spot of Light. It make me think of my common complaint about Formula Hollywood Movies… that in Real Life the Lines between Good Guys and Bad Guys are not nearly so bold, deep and certain. Intentions, Wishes, and Motives are never entirely Black, or even entirely Pure White. Movies rarely show the Wide Middle Ground. People come into Conflict, that’s sure, but it is rarely about issues of Good and Evil. When it is about ‘who gets the girl?’… why does anybody have to be the ‘bad guy’? Two Good Guys could fight over the same girl too, no? and it would probably make for a better movie. Hmmmm… B&E… maybe you should write a Screen Play…

ha. i feel like we should form a back scratching association:) but thankyou nonetheless. as you said, it's such a little thing but a compliment can brighten up your day.

actually at one stage i did want to be a writer. but unfortunately i seem to lack discipline & carry through to refine whatever talents or vision i have into anything. there is something about wanting a vehicle to express yourself or create that can draw you to writing or painting or any artform i guess. but the reality of cultivating a skill is maybe a little less glamorous.

yeah i agree with you that morally grey characters can be interesting. should i like this guy? can i like this guy? i think i like this guy despite the fact that he does horrendous at times... how confusing. so it can be true to life in that way. there are some good tv shows i think where the characters are a little more grey if you search for them.

**Posts:** 1152 · by **Leo Volont** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:17 pm

bert_ernie wrote:
…actually at one stage i did want to be a writer. but unfortunately i seem to lack discipline & carry through to refine whatever talents or vision i have into anything. there is something about wanting a vehicle to express yourself or create that can draw you to writing or painting or any artform i guess. but the reality of cultivating a skill is maybe a little less glamorous….

Actually, style and phrasing sort of automatically grow and get better. The real problem I find is simply getting the Idea for a book – Plotting… what Happens between A and B. If you can Get the Basic Idea for a Story, and can outline it, then you got most of it beat. You simply write it all out. As you write, you get a better sense for it, so that when you are done, you go back to the beginning to see what you wrote, and you revise it up to your Latest Standards. One of my favorite writers was Thomas Hardy, and now that they have those Complete Collections on Kindle I am able to see what his first several books were like. He kind of actually sucked for a while. Henry James took a while to find himself. His first book was about a kind of incestuous impulse of an Adopted Father for his adopted daughter… it was like watching a train wreck… the book was so bad it was hard to put down, thinking how could the author of “Portrait of a Lady” be such a bungling idiot? So, if you have Ideas and few years, well, what else are you doing with your precious time?

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