Question ...

Hi lucid

I'm curious about why you suggested to your subject that they should sleep. I know it is the classical term people use in hypnosis, but I have to say I don't use it myself (unless working with an insomniac!).

If there is a lot of noise in the background, I would probably make use of the noise deliberately, with suggestions like, notice how many different sounds you can hear, and notice whether you can hear those sounds with your ears or with other parts of your body, and as you listen and identify all those sounds, you can notice how the sound of my voice is different from all those other sounds, and so you can easily pay attention to everything I am saying...

you get the drift!

Good luck with it

Kathleen

Hi Lucid,

got a few thoughts on your questions...

I am guessing that the reason you gave your subject the sugestion to sleep at your comand was so that next time you would not have to go through a longer progresive induction. I think that is a great idea. However the word sleep is a strong one - looks and sounds great for stage hypnosis but is possibly less appealing in the context of therapy or a non stage situation. The fact that your subject was hypnotised and respinded well to your suggestions does not mean that they will automatically accept every suggestion. maybe there is something about being commanded to sleep that they found unappealing. Also the confidence with which you deliver such a command is of high importance. Were you feeling confident? What did you do after it didn't work.

What i prefer is to give the post hypnotic suggestion that 'whenever you want to use the power of your unconscious mind/relax in this way/etc all you need to do is sit quietly and hear the word relax four times in your mind. the fouth time you hear the word you will immediately experience the deepest state of trance you have experienced today.' You can add in they will only be able to do this when it is safe and appropriate to do so.

This is less threatening than I shall say sleep and you will zonk out. It also puts the ability in their hands, so they can genunly have this shortcut to trance.

Another thought about this is to stack the cards in your favour as much as you can. When someone has just come out of a trance they are still highly suggestible. Congratulate them on their abilities to go into a trance, let them know that once they have been in a trance like that they can go back into it, very easily, and very quickly. Ask them if they would like to go back into a trance now. In other words, big them up, tell them what will happen then get their permission to go ahead. Of course emphasise, the words that you wish to.

I could go on about this for hours as I really find it ratifies the trance for my clients, gives them a blaggers guide to going in a trance and using their new skills and totally throws them from thinking about the fact they just quit smoking or lost a phobia.

On the subject of noise, I know it is a tough one to accept that you have to incorporate it, but that is likely to be the only response you will get from hypnotists. It is the best advice you can get. If something is bothering you it wil likely bother your client. So dont let it bother you. Incorporate it.

You can do this directly. 'Other sounds, other voices will simply remind you of your goal here, those everyday sounds wil relax you more and remind you, you are sitting in that chair, listiening to me...'

Indirectly. Fopr example if someone is waling past audibly, say 'And as you take those steps toward...' or 'Stepping through each...'

In terms of getting through the induction with sounds, think about times when you have gone into an altered state with sounds around you, dozing off in the passenger seat of a car, falling alseep in front of the television, bored in a meeting....go over some of these experiences in the early phases of your induction - they suggest or oresuppose that it is possible to go into a trance with sounds around.

I used to have my hypnotherapy practice at home and used to worry about the door bell going off as it was right outside the room I worked. Eventually it did and at the time my client was in a crucial stage of work with full arm levitiation. I had been waiting for the inevitable and the day had arrived. I said, I want you to enjoy those changes ringing through you now as you drift deeper into a trance while i leave the room for a moment. Dealt with the door, crept back into the room and the arm was even higher than when I left. It dealt with all my worries about noise in a moment.

Another example is group sessions. I do these for smokers and it is inevitable when you get a few smokers in a room, one will have a cough. You have to incorporate it.


Any questions let me know.........
Ant

Hi Ant
It's really helpful to see how experienced practitioners deal with the unexpected.
Your examples of language that's inspired by what's actually happening at the time has given me ideas about how to be more versatile when I need to be.
As a Diploma student, I'm grateful for all the inspiration that I can pick up.
Cheers
starship

Thank you noth for your replies, Kathleen and Anthony!

Once again, great advise!! I can see that you two have alot of experience!

I have another question. Worked with someone that seeks to stop smoking yesterday evening. I've seen him twice before and I'm basically teaching/helping him to use his imagination, and clear his mind as to be able to focus and give me his undevided attention etc.

Yesterday I tried a induction on him. To me it seemed that he went under. He even forgot some of what happened while under but also remembered some. I did the eye fixation test, and I told him that he would experience the color red to be more vibrant that other colors,...both worked. Then I tried the arm catalepsy test on him, telling him that when he opens his eyes he won't be able to bend it etc, but this test didn't work that well. as soon as he opened his eyes it took about 5 seconds for him to bend his arm and lower it again. I believe that I just didn't take him deep enough , although I did use deepening. I am considering using the Dave Elman deepening. Telling him to count back from one hundred and having the numbers dissapear. Do you think this would work? Also, does te subject really need to say the numbers out loud ot can he just say them in his mind and then signal me that they've dissapeared?

Thanx again for all your help and looking forward to hearing from you!

kind regards,

Lucid

Lucid,

I hope you get some other replies to your questions because my viewpoint is possibly a bit different to what others will say. Personally I do not do specific tests for depth of hypnosis. Not that I think they are a bad thing, it is simply because I have realised that depth of trance does not seem to be related to whether my clients achieve a result or not. Sometimes people go very deep, very quick and have a big experience but do not get a result. Others stay in a very light state and do change. In terms of what someone remembers from their time during the hypnotic trance, I would say it is fairly normal for them to remember a great deal - unless you use some distracting/confusional techniqes as you bring them out of trance. Alternatively you can suggest amnesia, again do this quite indirectly. I will type up some further thoughts on this later

With regard to catalepsy and deepening and Elman,

I have used the Elman induction with some success. I get the person to say the numbers out loud - or rather slowly and softly, when they say 'one' (I get them to count up rather than down), you can say even softer. I find the numbers are then said more quietly and more softly each time until they dissapear. At which time you have a nice gauge that they have gone because you are no longer hearing numbers.

You can use this to deepen a trance or you can use anything else. For example you have established eye fixation, you have given a suggestion they will experience the colour red more vividly as they enjoy that experience you say, and as you experience that colour more vividly you can double your state of relaxation/you can notice your arm, resting there...

In other words build on what you have already got going on...its an extension of utilisation as discussed earlier, but this time you are using their own experience of hypnotic phenomenon to build with...

Ant

Hi Anthony - thanx for your reply!

I usually use the color and eye fixation tests as convincers to prove to subjects that they have been under. This keeps them from thinking it was a waste of time or money etc.

As to to the trance depth topic. It is my understanding that the deeper the trance the more powerful the experience is as well,and the more powerful your suggestions would act out on your clients. So to help someone stop smoking for example,...woulnd't it be best to get him as deep as possible so your suggestions would also hit home deeper and harder?

With the subject I discussed in my previous message for example. He was in a light to medium trance as far as I could tell but he failed to respond to most my suggestion. And the ones he did respond to, like the color red being more vibrant etc just faded away shortly after he awoke. So this tells me that I just didn't get him deep enough. Maybe his mind just needs to get some more practise of how to go into hypnosis. I will see him tonight and try the Elman deepener on him.

Thanx again....

Lucid

I agree that convincers are important. I have mentioned this before with regard to arm levitation or any unconscious signal. Without a convincer only a fraction of your clients will really know they have been in a trance because it can feel quite normal. Other comon convincers are some amnesia, an experience of time distortion.

I have also been trained that deeper equals better. I agree with this to some degree. I agre because it is more likely that the person will be able to get some kind of hypnotic phenomena going on. You can be more direct with your suggestions. So yes to some extent those direct suggestions will be more effective when the person is in a deeper trance. However my experience has shown that it is simply not the case that deep trance is directly proportional to success or change.

Three days a go I had a client who clealry only went into a light trance. she came to see me to quit smoking. we only had one session. She loked a bit puzzled when she opened her eyes at the end. I asked if she had any questions and she said that she really did not feel as though she had been in a trance. i assured her this was quite normal and asked if she wanted a cigarette. She did not. Thats right I said, the need has gone, now go outside and enjoy that, get in your car and enjoy that. Since then she has referred three clients to me so I guess she is doing OK.

The ability to gauge depth of trance is a great skill to have, but my advice is work with whatever you have and expect a result. I appreciate that many hypnotherapists like to train their clients to go into a trance and that this can take a few sessions. In my opinion this is only necessary if they are so uptight they cannot relax at all. If they can sit back in a chair and imagine a brighter future then that is close to enough.

What do others think? Is depth of trance important in your work?

Lucid, let us know how you got on with your session?

Ant

Hi Anthony,

I find it very interesting that you could help your client without taking her into a deep trance, and that she responded so well. May I ask you iwhat sort of suggestions you gave her were more direct like "you don't enjoy smoking anymore, cigarrettes taste like burned rubber"etc. Or more in the form of indirect suggestions....finding the cause of her habit, etc. And how long did she repsong to these suggestions?

Unforunately my subject cancelled his session due to the flu, but I will keep you updated on this case.

Thanx so much for your help Anthony. Hope we can continue these discussions in future!

Have a great day!

Lucid

Hi Lucid,

best not to hypnotise people when they have flu - their nose keeps running and a smuch as you could utilise that - each time you sniff you will go deeper - you may catch it yourself....

The way I work with smokers is quite straightforward, I put a lot of emphasis on the pre talk. It takes an hour and I aim to undo or change three beliefs most smokers have including

They believe it will be painful and difficult to do, they beieve they will suffer from withdrawel and they believe that smoking actaully does something for them. With that achieved, i then get on with the trance work.

I use a combination of metaphor and direct and indirect suggestions. However pretty much every direct suggestion I give them is hidden in some way. For example 'I cannot tell you what to do. You're an intelligent woman, you already know all the reasons for ending the smoking problem today, so as you relax there, I am not going to say to you 'Smoking is dangerous and unhealthy', 'I am not going to say cigarettes are a poor substitute for being there for.. and ... in the years to come.'

In other words say what you are not going to say then say it

Can you see this leaves them with some scope to not accept the suggestion? That comfort I find ensures they do accept the suggestion. I do not use any typical aversion methods such as from today cigs will taste like burnt rubber. It almost presuposes they wil taste another for a start. I ued to work in this way and get results but in too many people it is just what they are waiting for and just sets up a battle of wils I am not interested in having. It is no different from painting a kids fingers with mustard and hoping they wil stop biting their nails. rarely works long term. the reason it rarely works in my opinion is because it does not deal with the reason they smoke/bite nails and it does not deal with the voice/felling/pang that is saying have a cig. That is still there. To deal with that you need to do something else like a reframe on the part running that behaviour.

Another thread on addictions and aversion in the forum covered this nicely. I think it was Mark Tyrell that suggested even if you are going to use aversion make it at ;east one shade indirect. So for example, 'I am not going to sit hear and tell you stories about people who have suffered from smoking related illness. A therapist I know says to his clients, now imagine something for me...."follow with some horrific story about waking up in hospital or coughing up blood"...but I dont need to say that to you, you already know all the reasons...

The only direct suggestions I give them really thick are,

from today if anyone offers you a cigarette you will smile and say 'I dont smoke'

also when i get some decent hypnotic phenomena like arm levitation or catalepsy, i will challeneg them to move their arm and give a direct suggestion that 'thats right your a strong man, but your unconscious is a superpower and it is working for you, it wants you to be the best you can be' lots of feel good stuff, but again barely directed toward smoking.

Ant