long term withdrawal effects of SSRIs

Ruth wrote:One of the things which has kept me going is a belief that this depression is another withdrawal effect, and that if I can be patient and not panic this depression will right itself over time.

Hi Ruth

Good on you for managing so far. It's not easy. (For my details, see post "coming off serzone".)

Re the above quote, I think you are absolutely right in your beliefs. My doctor isn't buying into any withdrawal effects either and mentions "the underlying condition" often. I have read much now about how many doctors mistakenly think withdrawal symptoms or effects are the so-called underlying condition or a relapse. Maybe they're conditioned to think that way and could do with some CBT to change the way they think and their subsequent instant-prescription-writing behaviour!

Seriously, after all I have read and learned from experience, I think the main point is the one you mention - that your belief that your recent depression is yet another withdrawal effect is what has kept you going. It seems to me with so much conflicting information (from doctors) and that stunning answer (from doctors) "no-one really knows" (when asked how ssri's work, how long withdrawal effects might last, what caused the depression, how long it will last etc etc etc) that we have to make up our own minds. You've made up your mind to believe that it's a withdrawal effect and who's to say it's not? I don't believe it is possible for any doctor to actually know that it is not.

So, all we can do is stick with what we believe. And funnily enough, I'm finding, that thought is uncomfortably in line with all that stuff we've read for years - create your own reality, what you believe in will be your reality, even as mundane as thinking positively. All the things which - even though I knew them - were seemingly not possible in the deepest, darkest depths of depression.

Coming off the medication, however, I think we are now so experienced in our own reality in all its guises, that I do believe that we literally know ourselves best. So it's not as "simple" as positive thinking - it's somehow deeper than that. Like our very beings know and trust that we are on the right track. And also very powerful, I think, is how much we WANT this to be the case - "it's a withdrawal effect, it's not really me".

From all the people I've been talking to and the reading I've done, no-one can really say (there we go again) how long it takes for the effects of the drugs to leave our systems - mind and body. I don't mean the half-life stuff, I mean the long-term effects. My chiropractor/acupuncturist (highly respected in his field, accompanied teams to the last three Olympics) told me last week that it could take up to 12 months (horrible, I know, but think only of the improvement ...).

He said that because these drugs effect every part of the body, not just the brain, but all our organs (read a comprehensive list of possible side-effects to see just how much of our bodies, truly terrifying reading ...) every cell in the body needs to re-learn "how to" without the effect of the drug - and that it takes time.

I'm choosing to believe that every single thing I am experiencing is due to the drug leaving my body. Every effect is the poison finding its way out. I'm only 7 weeks clear of the last dose (after eight weeks prior to that tapering off) and am still having "anxiety" attacks - except that the symptoms are all physical - chest tightness, difficulty breathing, neck pain, numb fingers etc - I do not FEEL anxious. I also have indigestion and bloating when I eat (never before) and major fluid retention.

I'm sure your recent episode is more poison just working its way out. I think it was Dr David Healy, the psychiatrist from North Wales who presented his findings to the British Safety Medicines board last October (after the controversial Panorama programme), and was interviewed on BBC Radio 4 this week, who said that any episode of depression inside the first 12 months of coming off the medication would be a withdrawal effect - that inside 12 months was too soon for a relapse.

Also, I think The Learning Path, on this site, will help to answer some of your questions and give you the encouragement to keep on your track. It helped me.

Good Luck
Juno
PS Apart from the muscle twinges, what other withdrawal effects did you experience?

Hi Ruth,

Juno, great response. Ruth, if you read Juno's 'coming off serzone' post you will know my story too. I was on antidepressants for 8 years and took several months to slowly wean off a combo of Serzone and Wellbutrin. The last 3 weeks (I officially took my last dose June 25th) have been torture at best. In fact, I would describe it two ways - one being that it felt like I was in the belly of hell (like a bad drug trip), second being that it was the most amazing experience i ever had. The latter? Because for the first time in my life I am trying to take control. For so many years people have been telling us that we were broken. Doctors stick you on an antidepressant and tell you it's because you have a chemical imbalance - an invisible disability of sorts. 6, 7, 8 years later we find ourselves here. Why? Because we believe. And that is enough. I am so happy I found this forum and individuals like Juno that were going through the same thing because it makes me excited, despite all the crap that I am feeling right now, to get this poison out of me. The body is an amazing thing. There are so many stories out there of personal triumph > how many times has a doctor told someone they will never walk again, or they only have 6 months to live, or so on and that person made it there mission to prove that statement wrong and went against all ODDS and against SCIENCE. So yes, the body and the brain has to re-learn a lot of things. That takes time. I am currently working with a naturopath to complete a slow liver detox. She told me that even with a proper detox it takes approximately 1 month for every year you are on an antidepressant, however we are trying to speed it up a little and complete it in 4 months. In the interim I also started to take 200 mg of 5 HTP to increase seratonin levels - Ruth you may want to consider that as well.

Juno, funny you should also mention that you are having indigestion and bloating (and water retention) for the first time in your life, because I am experiencing the same. I understand the water retention (the body's way of diluting the toxins) however I am a little confused at the bloating and indigestion.


Sincerely,

Tasha

Hi Juno

Thanks for your message - its encouraged me today to keep on going.

My side effects were things like a strange tingling/fuzzy feeling inside my head which affected my reaction time and vision and seemed to have a buzzy sound with it as well. It was like a kind of shiver which went right through my head. It was worse when I was tired and could keep happening every few seconds. I also had numbness on my face - around my mouth. And I think I had restless legs.

Now I've got nervous ticks in my legs (calves)and also a dull ache in my knees. I've also got a peculiar irregular heartbeat - it only happens a couple of times a week - but it feels like a very brief spell of palpitations. I've had that for years on and off - I'm assuming that's the ADs.

One of the reasons I think my depression is related to the ADs is because the anxiety started about 2 months after my last dose - with butterflies. It confused me because I didn't know what it was I was anxious about .... as time has gone on and the anxiety has developed into depression I've found plenty of things to be anxious about - but I think this is caused by distorted depressive thinking, and it's not the real cause of my depression.

In a way the Dr Healy quote about it taking 12 months to normalise is a bit of a comfort. I've got half way through the process now, so I'm definitely not turning back. In 6 months time this may all be over and I can start really living an AD-free life.

I've been seeing a chinese doctor for herbal medicines and acupuncture...which I think is helping me, although it's hard to tell because progress is so up and down.

I've also been taking vitBcomplex, magnesium, calcium and omega 3.

Ruth are you working right now. Currently I am unemployed and debating when will be the right time to start looking for work again. I want to have as much control over my mental capacity as possible.

Ruth wrote:Hi Juno

Thanks for your message - its encouraged me today to keep on going.

My side effects were things like a strange tingling/fuzzy feeling inside my head which affected my reaction time and vision and seemed to have a buzzy sound with it as well. It was like a kind of shiver which went right through my head. It was worse when I was tired and could keep happening every few seconds. I also had numbness on my face - around my mouth. And I think I had restless legs.

Now I've got nervous ticks in my legs (calves)and also a dull ache in my knees. I've also got a peculiar irregular heartbeat - it only happens a couple of times a week - but it feels like a very brief spell of palpitations. I've had that for years on and off - I'm assuming that's the ADs.

These are side effects you are experiencing now, or experienced early on in your withdrawal?

Tasha

yes I'm working now and the reason I have used ADs for the last 7 yearson and off is to ensure that I stayed in work. The last few months have been difficult because I've struggled with depression (without resorting to ADs) and it has had quite a bad effect on my perfomance at work.

My advice would be to get yourself really well before starting a job and then may be to start by taking a job which will be fairly undemanding initially. It depends how you cope with change - some people thrive on it, but I tend to find it all very stressful.

Tasha

the side effects lasted for about 2 months apart from the leg twitching which has been going on for 6 months

Ruth wrote:My advice would be to get yourself really well before starting a job and then may be to start by taking a job which will be fairly undemanding initially. It depends how you cope with change - some people thrive on it, but I tend to find it all very stressful.

Hi Ruth,

unfortunately I tend to find it all very stressful as well. I am also having very peculiar heart palpitations and chest tightness. How did you deal with yours?

T

id definetly suggest talking to ANOTHER doctor about your symptoms......
good luck hun

Did you have insomnia as well?