How to manage an ED with DBT??? Help!

Postby stella_blues » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:51 pm

I could use some help! I'm totally mystified as to how I should use DBT to deal with my eating disorder.

My DBT target behavior this week is to allow myself only two purges ALL WEEK (I usually purge 1-3 times a day)- and no restricting.

:evil:

How on earth am I supposed to succeed with this? :?

I've been restricting since last night. If I eat lunch, I know I'll purge it. So do I just keep restricting- or do I go ahead and eat and purge and count it as one of my two purges? And it's only day one of my week!

:?:

My DBT coach said to take this "one moment at a time" and stay in the now, to not dwell on the future- to not even think about later in the day. But all I can think about is if I use one of my two purges today- how will I get through the next six days with only one more purge?????
Is this too lofty a target?

Am I missing something? Is there another way to do this?

I feel totally set up to fail. :oops:
All I do lately is fail. I'm tired of even trying.
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#1

Postby stella_blues » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:51 pm

Well, that was a big epic FAIL.

I restricted through lunch. Made a healthy chicken dinner, ate some of it, followed up with ice cream (mistake) and so had to purge it. Mostly b/c of the ice cream. If I'd just stuck with the dinner, I think i could've made it through.

I suck at this. :oops:

Spent the day laying around feeling like hell. This is a terribly lonely experience. I hate this. :cry:
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#2

Postby angel_lotus » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:40 am

Stella,

I can feel your pain and understand your frustration. I wish I had some constructive ideas.

I know this may not be an easy choice, but perhaps you could go off the Lamictal and see if your BP goes away? I understand that you have been on many meds and this one is working for you, but it has given you another medical condition. The stress of BP seems to totally counter the "balance" that the Lamictal is supposed to provide.

I hope you are doing better today.

Blessings,
Debbi
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#3

Postby stella_blues » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:03 am

Thank you for understanding, Angel. I can't express how very lonely, lost and hopeless I feel with this ED stuff. There's no one in my "real" life I can connect with about it.

I think you're absolutely dead-on about d/c'ing the Lamictal.
There's a problem with that, though. I keep a mood chart. The charts since since starting Lamictal looked markedly different than before. My moods have been swinging into the red zone of depression, as usual- BUT since starting Lamictal, it only lasts a few days and my mood is heading back in the right direction. All on my own. Usually it hangs on for weeks until I'm sitting in my car ready to do myself in. Or my partner and p-doc put me on a locked ward for a week or two. My pdoc sees this med as invaluable, obviously- esp. since no other med has worked at all. She really wants me to hang in there with it. AND I don't think she totally believes the Lamictal has "caused" the bulimia. She thinks it was there, that it's another layer of "the onion" of my pre-existing conditions that's come to the fore. She's right to an extent.

At my last appt. she admitted to being stumped as to what direction to take with me. She said it's very tricky, my combination of issues. It's hard to know what to treat, what to prioritize - the mood disorder, the suicidality, the depression, the eating disorder/OCD- because treating for one can exacerbate the others. :?

To tell you the god's honest truth, I'm about done. I hang in there for my partner. God damned Christmas. I would ruin every single Christmas for her. My sister's teenaged nephew (by marriage) died right around Christmas and that's devestated every Christmas since for his whole family. I don't mean to sound flip. I'm just frustrated- day after day after day of ALL of this crap and emotional drama and despair. For what? For what end? I just can't help but ask myself.

No need to answer to that point. I know there isn't one. And I know it's just awkward, uncomfortable, and tiring talking about it. Just venting.
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#4

Postby angel_lotus » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:20 pm

Stella,

I totally feel for you. I have ruined nearly every holiday in the past 15 years that I have been married. My husband is a saint--taking care of our 3 young boys while I have been hospitalized 4 times, and nearly died several. He stood next to me while I had a knife in my hand wanting to slit my wrists. I have been in the depths of despair and praying to leave this planet. I know how you feel. Many mornings I find it difficult, sometimes nearly impossible, to get up. Although I have what most people dream about--incredible spouse, 3 amazing kids, beautiful home, great business that I own, freedom, I am not happy. My health regimens (water, exercise, etc) have helped tremendously to lift my mood and keep me going, but there is still an underlying discontent. An obsession with the way I look. I have been trying to understand this as I don't have anyone to impress. I work at home. It seems ridiculous. I have been going back on my life to understand this preoccupation, and know it began in childhood. Did yours?

It is a very lonely mindset. Although I don't BP, I know how isolating the condition is. It's like you are in a bubble with your own thoughts, thoughts you cannot share with anyone because they probably wouldn't understand. And when you are with people, you are not alone, but you still are alone in your head. Does this make sense?

It must be very difficult to have benefits from the Lamictal and then have to deal with the BP. As you said, finding the right combinations of medication is so tricky. You put this whole "lifestyle" so well when you said:

I'm just frustrated- day after day after day of ALL of this crap and emotional drama and despair. For what? For what end? I just can't help but ask myself.


The stress of finding out ways to get well piles on more stress to an already stressful existence.

I am happy to be of support, if I can. Even if you just want to vent. :)

Debbi
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#5

Postby stella_blues » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:35 pm

Hi Debbi-
angel_lotus wrote: ...I have been in the depths of despair and praying to leave this planet. I know how you feel. Many mornings I find it difficult, sometimes nearly impossible, to get up. Although I have what most people dream about--incredible spouse, 3 amazing kids, beautiful home, great business that I own, freedom, I am not happy. I have been trying to understand this as I don't have anyone to impress. I work at home. It seems ridiculous. I have been going back on my life to understand this preoccupation, and know it began in childhood. Did yours?


Wow, thanks so much for sharing. You understand the struggle and profound emotional suffering all too well! :( I definitley have similar confusion over my situation. Same deal- wonderful partner, have acheived most of my life dreams (own a beautiful hilltop farm with horses), am physically healthy, and am self employed- one of my specialties is working with horses, my greatest love in life. So, like you, my condition really mystifies me- and I feel great shame and guilt. Is it rooted in childhood? I definitely believe the Borderline Personality Disorder/ attachment disorder is. Too many primary caretakers abusing/abandoning me from a young age. :evil: As for the Bipolar and Depression, I'm convinced they're congenital/genetic.

What are your thoughts on the cause of your debilitating condition?

It's like you are in a bubble with your own thoughts, thoughts you cannot share with anyone because they probably wouldn't understand. And when you are with people, you are not alone, but you still are alone in your head. Does this make sense?


Yes! Yes, this is exactly how it is! I was at a 9 on my depression scale yesterday (1= no depression and 10= suicidal action) and that level of despair feels SO alienating, SO isolating. I mustered the courage to call my DBT coach who urged me to call my pdoc (who is also an acting crisis worker) and my voice and the words coming out of my mouth sounded so far away, like they were coming from someone else- almost like I was hearing them from in the other room- I felt completely detached from my body. Nothing I could say or do could convey my utter alone-ness and helplessness. Every word fell so far short of how I felt. I was speechless a few times- all I could say was, "I don't know what to say."

Thanks for listening and taking the time to offer such thoughtful, personal replies. I know it can be tiring- I'm a pretty needy human, sometimes. :oops: I hope I didn't run Karen off- I worry about that. :(
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#6

Postby angel_lotus » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:19 am

Hi Stella,

I am concerned about Karen as well, but I don't think you caused her to stop posting. I wish there was some way to get in touch with her :(

I am glad that what I said resounded with you. There is a great deal of guilt when you live with someone who has to deal with the ups and downs (mostly the downs) of this condition. I think it's wonderful that you have a devoted partner. Without mine, I would have surely been gone a while ago.

Your lifestyle sounds beautiful. Being able to interact with the horses and be in nature so much must be very therapeutic.

I can trace my behavior back to when I was a teenager. Interestingly, I don't remember my childhood before age 12 or so, so this leads me to believe there was some abuse I blocked out. I am the oldest of 3 girls, and my parents were very perfectionistic and demanding (or so I felt). I always had to achieve academically. I always felt under a lot of pressure and isolated myself within my home. I was angry a lot and hid in my room and listened to music. When I was about 13 or so, I remember asking my mom if I looked fat, or needed to lose weight, and I think she said I did. She was always concerned about what she ate and had all these calorie counting books which I read voraciously. So, I went on a diet of my own making. And that started it all. Once I lost weight I got so many compliments that I decided to lose more. Plus, this was under my control. I could control how I looked, not my parents. I started exercising like crazy, staying up until all hours of the night doing leg lifts and calesthetics. I remember one day I decided all I could eat was a small plum and I would eat that in very small sections. I counted all my calories and felt very accomplished when my daily intake was very low, like a few hundred.

Eventually, my parents became concerned. I think my weight went into the low 90s. They had no idea what to do. They took me to a psychologist and I wouldn't talk. They chased me around the house with oatmeal, and I ran outside and hid in the car in the cold. At this time (early 80s), anorexia was not well known, so they had no idea what to do with me. I, on the other hand, was so proud of my weight and didn't see how it was affecting me.

Eventually I got the idea to purge. This behavior continued until I was a college sophomore or so. I would mostly starve myself and occassionally BP. For some reason, I just stopped this behavior on my own. I don't really remember how this happened except that it did.

Interestingly, I had to conquer my self image problems for a while as when I got pregnant with my first child, I gained 60 lbs. That was in 1994. I never really lost all the weight, so my weight increased with my 2nd child. With my 3rd I had gestational diabetes, and my weight was close to 210 when I delivered, and I am only 5"0'. I was used to being about 115. However, I accepted how I looked for some reason. I started losing the weight in 2006, and am now back to "normal" weight. I am conscious about what I eat, but I don't count calories or obsess. I eat when I am hungry and I try to eat healthy. I don't binge.

That said, I am certainly not without problems. As I mentioned before, I believe that the anorexia and bulimia are part of a pattern of OC behavior, so although I don't have them per se, the OC manifests in other ways. When I was a teenager I had very bad skin. I used to pick at it a lot. Now, my skin is pretty nice, but I still pick when I am anxious. I also pick at the ends of my hair. It's interesting because the buildup of anxiety precipitates these habits, but markedly dissapates after I am done, just like binging. An hour can go by while I am doing this and it seems like a minute. I am in an almost unconscious state of mind.

The reason that I came to these boards to post my "water cure" is because it has done a lot to curb my compulsions. This year I became obsessed with the wrinkle that has formed between my brows. I became aware of it 2 years ago and it's been something I've hated ever since. I decided to have my face peeled to get rid of it, something I have done for many years just to clear my skin. It really works wonders. Well, I figured it would help the line. My skin looked great for a few weeks, but the line returned. So, I decided to get another peel. After this one, my skin looked worse. My forehead was pink and other parts of my face. Usually the pinkness goes away but this time it didn't. I was devastated as I was flying to see my sister in Oregon in a few weeks. So, I decided to get my face lasered. I had also had laser treatments for hair removal for years, so I thought this was no big deal. However, my skin was so traumatized from the peeling, that the laser left an indentation on my forehead, as well as making the line deeper and longer. I freaked out. This was at the end of March. My forehead has been swollen since then. It's only been in the last few weeks that it has looked better.

However, the one thing that helped me emotionally cope with the consequences of my actions (I would replay the entire scene of getting the laser done over and over and over again and obsess for hours just drenched in guilt) was drinking water. Once I started doing this, my mind calmed and I had much more control. I have been able to accept what has happened a lot better and let it go as a huge lesson.

I think we have to just take things a day at a time. I get frustrated because I will have a good week or so, and then go back to obsessing. There have been days where I have stared at my forehead for hours in the mirror. And I think, how ridiculous is this? What could I be doing with my time? How vain! I truly think obsessions can be stopped by getting out of the obsessive environment and doing something else, like taking a walk, calling someone, etc. When you feel the desire to binge, do you do something else to stave it off? You're such a good artist, perhaps you could draw? How interesting it would be to see a collection of art that helped to heal your eating disorder.

I think one of the best things to do when one is having suicidal/deeply depressive thoughts is to reach out and ask for help. By calling your DBT coach, you were proactive and that's wonderful, even if you couldn't get out too many words. Many times there aren't any words to describe what you are feeling, it's beyond description. I have been there.

I wish I had answers to your medication dilemma. To be quite honest, I am so anti-medication which is one of the reasons I am almost off Lamictal and soon to be off Lexapro. I know the Lexapro has made me more apathetic, and I can't stand that. I don't think the Lamictal has really helped either. I am hoping that by using supplements (I already take like 20-some a day), by drinking more water, by exercising, and by being more conscious of my actions, that I can eliminate my OC behavior. In my belief, the body has the ability to heal itself. Medication doesn't heal the body, it just aleviates some of the symptoms, and aggravates others. But I do understand that sometimes it is absolutely needed until other methods of healing are found.

Are you interested in any alternative health ideas?

Hope you are doing well today.
Debbi :)
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#7

Postby briary » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:38 am

Hi Stella and Debbi

Sorry I haven't been posting but I am going through something of a crisis myself.

stella_blues wrote:I was at a 9 on my depression scale yesterday (1= no depression and 10= suicidal action) and that level of despair feels SO alienating, SO isolating. I mustered the courage to call my DBT coach who urged me to call my pdoc (who is also an acting crisis worker) and my voice and the words coming out of my mouth sounded so far away, like they were coming from someone else- almost like I was hearing them from in the other room- I felt completely detached from my body. Nothing I could say or do could convey my utter alone-ness and helplessness. Every word fell so far short of how I felt. I was speechless a few times- all I could say was, "I don't know what to say."

Although I don't have BP, I am currently suffering with deepening and severe depression and what you've written could be exactly how I am feeling, because I don't ever feel I can convey the true agony and despair that I am going through. Maybe I shouldn't be saying this, but I did actually do something to myself, but obviously it failed as I am still here. I only told two people about it afterwards, the two people I feel attached to and trust more than anything. One is still here supporting me, but I feel so bad about myself for hurting the other to the extent she backed right off through a need to protect herself from me :cry:

I hope I didn't run Karen off- I worry about that. :(

No, you definitely haven't. It is nothing to do with you Stella. It is me and my problems. My head is a mess and I haven't felt up to communicating with anyone apart from the one person I write to and am attached to. I also felt I had nothing constructive to say while in such a state myself. Sorry for causing you to worry.

Karen
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#8

Postby angel_lotus » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:28 pm

Hi Karen,

It's wonderful to hear from you. I can honestly say that I do understand what you are going through. I have been through it many, many times. I am more than happy to be a phone friend, if you'd like. I know we are 5 hours different in time, but that's not a problem. Please write me offline (you can get my email address from my profile) and send me your number and I will call you. Please consider this. You shouldn't be alone. I'd love to be able to be of support and to help.

Blessings,
Debbi
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#9

Postby stella_blues » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:03 pm

Karen! :!: Thank goodness you're back on the forum and still with us! You're truly needed, missed, and appreciated here. I was right to be worried- in my heart I knew you were in deep trouble. I only wished there was a way I could help. But I know so well that when you're in that space, there is no help- that one can't even recognize help, let alone have the capacity to receive it. All there is is the desperate need for peace, a staggering search for relief from the heart wrenching suffering. Nothing on this earth can ease that level of emotional pain. Nothing. I don't know what it's like for you, but I know that sort of blinding hopelessness, which no words can describe and no person could ever hope to understand. :cry:

Today I described it to my DBT therapist as having a slipped disk, a pain that can knock a grown man to his knees and make him sob. At least one can take a strong pain med, lay on the floor, or find some position that eases the back pain. But with this level of emotional pain, there is NO position- no place of comfort- and no hope of finding one. You're utterly trapped with the searing pain.

I'm just so thankful you've survived. I imagine you're still hurting. And for that I'm so sorry. :(
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#10

Postby stella_blues » Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:25 pm

HI Angel, What a trial you've had! As if an eating disorder, birthing three babies :!: and the health complications assiciated with that, and then raising them, and also facing a traumatizing upbringing aren't hard enough- the skin problems you've described would push anyone to the edge! My gosh! :shock: I'm glad your injuries are on the mend- but nearly nine months of waking up to the swelling everyday - it must be incredibly difficult. :( It amazes me what one human being can endure and survive. I'm constantly reminded of this, with stories like yours and Karen's- and my own.

We're tough critters.

Has your sister been supportive? You mentioned you were going to visit her.

It really struck me, about your experience, how you conquered such a deeply rooted eating disorder on your own. :!: That does give me hope.

I believe that the anorexia and bulimia are part of a pattern of OC behavior,


This is interesting b/c my pdoc actually said the same thing regarding my ED stuff. She mentioned I may have diagnosable OCD. I just can't imagine piling another diagnosis onto all of the others! ADHD, Anxiety Disorder, BP II, BPD, Maj. Dep., EDNOS, a learning disorder... it's absurd! Pretty soon I'll just be able to say- if it's in the DSM, I've got it! Or maybe you get so many they just cancel eachother out at some point. :roll:

So in regard to the OC point; Do you feel your ED issues were resolved in part b/c you simply replaced it with another OC behavior?

I think it's wonderful that you have a devoted partner. Without mine, I would have surely been gone a while ago.

Cheers to devoted partners! :) I'm mystified by the unwavering patience, kindness, and unconditional love my partner continues to give- even when I'm too disabled and sick to return it. Several times I've been poised to carry out my plan and it's the thought of her shattered heart that stops me. The words of my pdoc echoe so clearly in my head- "Don't you think it would totally derail J's life if you killed yourself?" I can vividly recall her severe expression when she asked this- her annoyed tone- almost like she was angry. Like she was angry that I could do such a thing to someone who loves me so much.
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#11

Postby briary » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:23 pm

Hi Debbi and Stella

Thank you both for your kind support and most of all for understanding. I have been feeling so desperate trying to explain just how terrible the despair and agony I have been experiencing is but still feeling so alone because most, if not all, of the people I have been trying to convey how absolutely terrible I feel just don't seem to realise how bad it is. Or maybe they do listen but they don't want to know.

I always long for someone to come and look after me and care for me and make things alright. I know that's somewhat of a fantasy, but I'd settle for being loved. I've spent most of my adult life alone, and received no love or emotional support from my parents when I was growing up, the opposite in fact.

Anyway, today is another bad day. I woke feeling full of despair and hopelessness because I can't see a way out of the binge cycle. I am too depressed to do anything about it anymore, which is why I keep coming up with other solutions.

Regarding OCD, I also have a diagnosis of this, although it was only officially diagnosed after my eating disorder started. Many of my rituals and obsessive thoughts centred around food then - not touching food by hand, using disposable plates and cutlery, only eating raw foods etc, but I think I have had obsessive traits all my life. Obsessive attachment to people is one example, but I never liked dirt, even as a child and my condition has deteriorated as I've got older, with cleaning obsessions and decluttering obsession among others.

stella_blues wrote:This is interesting b/c my pdoc actually said the same thing regarding my ED stuff. She mentioned I may have diagnosable OCD. I just can't imagine piling another diagnosis onto all of the others! ADHD, Anxiety Disorder, BP II, BPD, Maj. Dep., EDNOS, a learning disorder... it's absurd! Pretty soon I'll just be able to say- if it's in the DSM, I've got it! Or maybe you get so many they just cancel eachother out at some point. :roll:

I am in the same boat Stella, but really the labels are not important to anyone apart from the people giving them to us, usually psychiatrists and doctors. I do also get caught up in wanting to find a name or 'label' for everything, as in the past it has helped me try to tackle it and make improvements, but now I am at the stage where it is just something else to add to the list to prove how mentally ill I am - depression, eating disorder - officially anorexia but now bulimia too, general anxiety disorder, social phobia, OCD, PTSD, and more recently I've discovered I probably have some degree of autism, or am on the autistic spectrum. I have so many I've probably missed something in listing them out!

Several times I've been poised to carry out my plan and it's the thought of her shattered heart that stops me. The words of my pdoc echoe so clearly in my head- "Don't you think it would totally derail J's life if you killed yourself?" I can vividly recall her severe expression when she asked this- her annoyed tone- almost like she was angry. Like she was angry that I could do such a thing to someone who loves me so much.

That's just cruel in my opinion. As if you would deliberately or intentionally hurt anyone. Feeling such despair is not about causing hurt or pain to others but what we are going through and the thoughts we have about suicide are often the only way it seems possible of alleviating our pain.

Karen xx
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#12

Postby angel_lotus » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:26 pm

Hi Stella,

Yes, I agree, we are very tough. Not many things show the resiliency of the human spirit as does battling depression/anxiety/EDs/BDDs. They can be all encompassing. They take you out of "normalcy" and put you into some otherworldly mindset that isolates you, and makes it exceedingly difficult to get the proper help because the emotions are beyond description. They can be a miserable existence. I really think that if you can beat these disorders that you can conquer anything :)

You asked about my sister. Yes, she is supportive. Nearly everyone in my family is on antidepressant meds. There may be some truth to a genetic component.

I just can't imagine piling another diagnosis onto all of the others! ADHD, Anxiety Disorder, BP II, BPD, Maj. Dep., EDNOS, a learning disorder... it's absurd! Pretty soon I'll just be able to say- if it's in the DSM, I've got it! Or maybe you get so many they just cancel each other out at some point.


Karen, you quoted this as well. One suggestion I'd like to make, if I may, that I received from a friend a while ago. Try not to identify yourself with these "conditions," they are not who you are. They are just labels. If you identify, then you internalize, and you will become them. This labeling is one thing that I cannot stand about the psychiatric community. People are given all this branding, and they become even more depressed. The stigma of this is huge and very unfair.

Think of yourself as a person first. Strip away all these diagnoses and see yourself as a wonderful human being. I know it's difficult as you have lived with many of these for years. But that's truly who you are, deep inside. You are not a medical chart. You are not a lost cause. You are not a hopeless case. You are a beautiful spirit who can overcome anything. :)

Stella, regarding the end of my EDs, I have been trying to go back in time and remember what caused them to stop, but I really can't. The only thing that I know is that I was thrilled when I was pregnant because for the first time in my life, I could eat whatever I wanted and not feel bad about it. The OC habits that I have now are just resurfaces of the ones I had when I was a child.

I think what I am dealing with now is anxiety driven more than anything. When I am anxious, I obsess or I pick at something. I also do this when I am bored or want to procrastinate. I have a lot of alone time so I mull over things. I have to replace this time with something productive. I have been cleaning my office, cleaning the garage, playing with my 5-year-old, taking longer walks, etc.

Yes, kudos to your partner. I have always felt that I don't deserve mine.

How have you been doing?

Debbi
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#13

Postby stella_blues » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:11 pm

Hi Karen-
I always long for someone to come and look after me and care for me and make things alright. I know that's somewhat of a fantasy, but I'd settle for being loved. I've spent most of my adult life alone, and received no love or emotional support from my parents when I was growing up, the opposite in fact.

Anyway, today is another bad day. I woke feeling full of despair and hopelessness because I can't see a way out of the binge cycle. I am too depressed to do anything about it anymore, which is why I keep coming up with other solutions.


I long to be taken care of, too- even though my partner is willing and tries, it's not possible. B/c I know what I long for is maternal "one sided" love. It's a totally different animal from relationship love- which I find is full of compromises. I long to be just scooped up in an orb of complete protection, of a sort ethereal omnipresent adoration- like an infant in its mother's arms. I think you and I both lacked that at a really crucial time in our early development. It amazes me how something like that can plague and darken an entire lifetime. :(

It's a big reason I haven't had children. I'm so afraid of failing the way my mother did.

I've been hitting some pretty severe lows lately, too. I was having one yesterday - my pdoc had me come in for an appointment. She gets concerned when I hit those points and told me for the first time she sees me as high risk. She says it's in part b/c I just can't remember what the good times are like- all I see is the hopelessnes- and that's just "the depression talking." For you, it's Edie talking. She does what she can with meds and intervention to see me through to the other side of the bad times- but wants me to be able to hang in there on my own, knowing there's light on the other side of the darkness. It's so difficult! All I can see is bleak!

Maybe it's something that applies to your situation, too. You've had good times in your life? Is it hard to recall them - to really "feel" them when you're in this really despairing state? When the binge/purge rules your life? To believe they existed and will come again? I guess it's important to acknowledge you had those good times, but you just can't remember them right now. That you have to go on blind faith that they WILL return. B/c they really will. This is called Distress Tolerance in DBT. There's a mantra: "This too shall pass." My DBT coach reminds me to say this to myself- just repeat it over and over in my mind. Add to that doing whatever I need to comfort myself- even if it means taking a sedative (I have an Rx for Ativan) and sleeping through it. That it's like having a bad flu- and feeling like h#ll, dragged through the mud, but knowing that in a week or so, it will be gone and you'll feel better.

I realize how weak and feeble that advise sounds. :oops: I just hope you can give it some thought and a try. I sincerely worry about you. I know your situation is very serious.

I've borrowed the book you suggested. One of the best things I've gotten out of it so far is having a dialog with my ED, which I've also called Edie b/c I see it as a female entity. It has helped to seperate it from myself by having these dialogs. Even though I give in and lose the debates, I think it's a step in the right direction.

I don't know if it helps for me to share, but this is one conversation I had, day before yesterday:
Edie- I can't believe you ate those two pieces of pizza! What a LOSER!
Stella- I was hungry. And I love pizza. And two pieces is a regular serving size. And I'd barely eaten all day. AND I'd worked hard at trims and had burned a ton of calories. It's not that big a deal!
Edie- Not a big deal?!?! Are you insane? Do you know how many calories are in a piece of House Special Pizza? How many grams of FAT? There's like ZERO fiber- so do you realize how long that pizza will sit in your gut??? If you don't purge it, you'll just have to take a laxative.
Stella- No, I don't want to take a laxative. It makes my stomach hurt and all in knots.
Edie- Get rid of the Pizza SOMEHOW. I don't care how! Cut it out with a kitchen knife for all I care!
Stella- I hate you! Why can't I just have one meal in peace???
Edie- Because then you'll become a miserable lazy SLOB no one will want to know. You're already a failure at everything else in life. You can at least do this ONE thing. You're LUCKY I'm here at all!
Stella- My stomach does hurt. I do feel too full. But it's just b/c I've been purging too often.
Edie- See? You know I'm right. And, no, you haven't been purging to often. That's absurd.
Stella- Maybe I shouldn't have eaten two pieces- maybe just one. Then I wouldn't feel so uncomfortable.
Edie- Maybe you shouldn't have eaten ANY pizza if you're just going to let it sit there and fester in your belly!
Stella- I don't feel like purging. My throat hurts. I don't know how to find a moment away from J to do it.
Edie- Loser!
Stella- Alright, already! I try to get out as much as I can.
stella_blues
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#14

Postby briary » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:19 pm

Hi Stella

stella_blues wrote:I long to be just scooped up in an orb of complete protection, of a sort ethereal omnipresent adoration- like an infant in its mother's arms.

That's exactly how I feel too. It's a deep yearning need for mothering that I've never experienced in my life and want and need so much. I know now I will never experience and that makes me feel so sad and hopeless and unloved. I still believe my mother rejected me because I am bad and she knew my life would turn out this way.

In fact, your whole post could've been written by me, especially the conversation with Edie. I know that so well. I don't know how to stop it as she brow beats me and convinces me she is right. She always wins.

Anyway, how are you today?

Karen
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