Let me introduce myself........

Hi Witchqueen

You're a nurse, so I guess you may already know this - but did you have a general anaesthetic for your surgery? My understanding - and experience, and experience of close relatives - is that very weird dreaming is normal after a general.

Also, the "post-surgery" crash. No energy, but tears and irritability.

Having had depression - supposedly - for most of my adult life, I've now realised that I will be forever "branded" by those who know me. And it's too easy for them (mostly family) to therefore make everything (anything) my fault.

I've decided to not have depression anymore (OK, I do feel a lot better than I have in the past). But I have literally decided just to not have it. Instead, I'm going to have feelings - anger, sometimes rage, sadness, happiness, joy - whatever comes along. That's what "normal" people have, isn't it? So that's what I'm going to have.

And if I feel really down, or unusually irritable, I'm going to find other reasons for it. Not depression. Reasons like recent surgery, bad day at work, need a holiday, whatever. Because that's what normal people do, too, isn't it?

Sorry, Witchqueen, this has turned into my ramble! But it has occurred to me that for those of us who have suffered depression, it's too easy for it to become "lifelong". For other people to make it that way for us, too. And too easy for doctors, at the present time, to tell us that we need the medication "for the rest of our lives". (I got told that when I was 29, avoided taking any medication for another 11 years, then at 40 "succumbed" to the meds and have just come out of a 7-year medication nightmare.)

Not any more.

Hope you're feeling better.

Juno

Juno, I hear what you are saying. But there are just too many things that fit and don't fit together to not label it as 'depression', there is a complete shift in my personality, I become irritable and moody and have absolute thought disorder, where my thoughts are all over the place. I have only just recognised the symptoms and hate feeling like this, which then makes me more negative.

I also understand that the surgery and anaesthetic may have been my 'stressor' and the fact that I am stuck at home and feeling terribly isolated.

I have had counselling in the past, I know my 'problems' and think I deal with them pretty well, but when I feel like this, they all resurface again, and all I want to do is sabotage anything that is good for me.

I know medication isn't the answer, but I was so calm and level when I was on Prozac, and felt really good. I have tried to 'snap out' of this mood for the past 2 weeks, but nothing is helping, everything is such a chore. I haven't even been bothered to go to my physiotherapy which is crucial to my rehab recovery.

Your comments would be appreciated!

Well don you for being able to look at things differently. Not easy to do when you are in your 40's and have patterns that are mainly set for life.

Do you mind me asking why you had a 7 yr medication nightmare?

Hi Witchqueen

Re any comments from me - hardly an expert point of view, but definitely one of experience. Any comments from me are just food for thought, OK?! (For my story, read my post "coming off serzone".)

It's interesting, though, reading your reply. Your thinking strikes me as similar to mine - bit of a past pattern, you know your "behaviours" and stressors etc, so when something like this happens - that is, you've plummeted after the surgery - it all feels familiar and you're thinking "uh-oh, here we go again". You're thinking "I'm doing it again ..."

That would be me, too.

But it strikes me, in looking around and thinking back, that people who don't have depression, or haven't had it, don't think like this. They think "that surgery, God, that knocked me around." They think "I'll be glad when the effects wear off". They would blame the after-effects of the surgery for not even being able to force themselves to go to physio and they would definitely blame irritable, moody etc on those same after-effects.

And then, if it got tricky in their relationship - and why wouldn't it, being moody etc - then both partners would blame the effects of the surgery, therefore ensuring that it wasn't any person's fault.

Never having thought like this in my life, to my detriment I now think, I honestly think it's worth a go. It's too easy for us - people like us, depressive tendencies etc - to blame ourselves.

When I think back, my psych has always tried to help me to accept that things haven't been "my fault" and that I haven't been to "blame". Rather, it's been the fault of the depression. But being a person with a high (very high) level of personal responsibility and accountability, I had always seen that as something of a cop-out.

But think on it, Witchqueen. How attractive would it be? Not "you", but the surgery. And if you think back to your previous episodes, were there external things you could equally shift the responsibility to? Tangible reasons why?

I've often looked at others - happy people - and seen that they don't take a huge amount of personal responsibility for events. I've been envious of them, for that and the subsequent low stress and greater happiness. But I also secretly thought that they musn't be "deep thinkers" to not take more on board personally. Now, I can see how faulty my thinking was.

My way was too much personal responsibility and way too much "deep" thinking!

I don't know if any of this is making sense to you. It is making sense to me, and I'm going to try and be vigilant about it in the future ... even though I'm in my 40s, my patterns aren't set. I can't afford for them to be, they have not been helpful in the past. In fact, I'm looking forward to the new ones and the new life that will follow! Have you read the Learning Path on this site? It's very good, and very helpful.

In the immediate, however, how are you going to deal with being at home? And not feeling so isolated? Staying "in touch" on a site like this is good, but are there friends you can call on to visit you? Are you housebound? Are there many you can keep in contact with by phone?

Have you got a good stack of books you can get lost in? Any kind of mental distraction - that stops you thinking about how depressed you are - will be very important.

Hope this helps.

Juno

Juno,

I completely understand everything you have said, and thank you for sharing your experience with me.

I think too much, I over analyse everything. But by the same token, I am recognising patterns in my behaviour, and I don't like it. It makes me want to sabotage what is good in my life, and I don't want to go down that road anymore.

I know which things have triggered me off before, and how I collapse into a spiral of negativity, 'I'm not good enough', 'I'm fat and ugly', 'why does my husband love me and want to stay with me, when I am being such a b!tch', that sort of thing, and I hate myself even more for thinking and feeling that way. Yet I know it's the surgery that is making me feel this way, the after effects, the re-hab, the not being able to do things as well as I could 5 weeks ago. The tiredness and exhaustion, the not being able to sleep at night because my head is going around and round in never ending circles, digging up all sorts of thoughts from my past that I thought were long gone, the overdreaming.

I am more mobile now, but again I am in that 'can't be bothered' stage, I don't want to go out because if I do, then I want to spend money and at present I am on half pay, so that is not an option. My friends pop in when they can, and I do speak to people on the phone, my husband is also extremely supportive.

I don't know any other way to get myself out of this way of thinking, I am trying, by reading books and trying to understand my thought process, I know why I feel the way I do, I know why it has happened, but I still don't know what to do to feel better.

Anti-depressants were never an option in the past, but after a major depression 2 yrs ago, I realise that when I was on Prozac, I felt so 'human' again, my thoughts were calm and rational, I felt quite good. And that is why I want to go back on them again.

Sorry if none of this makes any sense at all, but thank you for being there, it helps enormously.

Hi
just out of curiosoty what surgey did u have ?

Not something that I would call 'Major', but I had a ligament reconstruction of my knee.

Why do you ask?

I had a operation 8 years ago and since then i'v suffered with depression , but was my thyroid ,gained weight , but the tiredness and depression was unreal was just wondering if it was homonel
hope u recover soon
take care x

Thank you very much for that Caren, much appreciated. I know the thyroid can cause a lot of problems, esp hormonal ones.

Hope you have managed to resolve things and your thyroxine levels are ok.

Juno

Just had to say, I think those are marvellous posts! What a brilliant way of putting it:

Instead of "depression" I'm going to have feelings!

Can I quote you to my clients?

Fantastic!

Kathleen

Yes, but how do you stop or cope with those 'feelings' ? How do you deal with them? What do you do with them? What do you do when your head won't let you be, and feels stuffed with cotton wool and all you want to do is sleep?

Hi Kathleen

Thank you! Means a lot ...!


Hi Witchqueen

I think it's kind of like this. For me, now med-free and feeling better, I have to change my thinking - to survive. Literally. To survive in the short-term, the medium term and the long-term. I can "feel" how easy it would be to slip back into depression thinking styles because, for me, they've been a lifetime habit. And for the vast majority of my life, I thought those thinking styles were OK, because I know I am a kind, caring person with good integrity.

Reading the Learning Path was a real eye-opener. It really started me thinking. I have to say, though, that it came at a great time for me. I was very "ready" to read it and "get" all that it was saying. It answered just so many questions for me - questions no-one else (professional) had ever been able to answer for me.

However, I wondered if I would have been able to "get" it, if I had still been in the darkest depths. I'm not sure. Maybe. There's a thought that I like a lot, about information falling on fertile ears - that is, when we're ready to hear it.

I do intend to see a psychologist (I've actually got some minor surgery coming up - minor in that it is removal of small suspicious skin things, but kind of major in that they will be tested for melanoma, my second six-monthly check after two malignant melanomas last year. That's happening on Monday, some recovery, hopefully not more surgery to follow!) in the near future but I realise I have to change my thinking right now. I have to start as I mean to go on.

Writing to you, Witchqueen, has helped me to clarify my thoughts. I want so much to help you and in trying to do so, it has really helped me.

In the short-term, I honestly think it's worth looking at other people. Try and think of someone you admire - the way they live their life, their levels of happiness etc. I found myself doing that yesterday. Thought of a lot of people I've known like that. And you know what? They had one glaring thing in common - they don't CARE as much as I do. They are caring people, but only to a point. A healthy point, I suspect. If they make a mistake, they fix it and move on. If they offend someone, they might apologise (or not) and not worry about it. If they have a bad day, they have a bad day - it's not the beginning of the end for them. If they get angry, they don't tie themselves up in knots with guilt. And they say what they think. They don't worry, they never over-analyse - but they're not really superficial either.

So I'm going to use the thought of those people as my role models. Just like the theory of role models is supposed to work, I'm going to emulate the way those people are, until I get the hang of it myself. And I'm going to remember that we only ever practise, we never get it perfect. It's taken me my whole life to admit that I was wrong in my thinking - I thought being deep and meaningful, caring to the point of destruction for myself, always looking out for others etc was the right way to be. And it's not.

Witchqueen - re how do you stop or cope with those feelings - how do you deal with them, what do you do with them etc. For the past seven nightmare years (and probably before) I thought that if I didn't constantly review the feelings and think about them and try to deal with them (which I couldn't, kept just going in the same angry or overwhelmingly sad circles, which always led to "what's the point, I'd rather be dead") then I somehow wasn't taking it seriously, I wasn't working hard enough to fix things, I wasn't being responsible enough. I also thought that if I managed to push them away then I might be "in denial" and they'd just come back to bite me later.

Now, every single thought and feeling that I had is still there in its negative form. Because they're memories. They're grooves of well-established patterns. But I don't have to travel those grooves anymore. I can make new ones. I AM making new ones. And the more I practise the new ones, the deeper those new grooves will become.

Witchqueen, you mention "digging up all sorts of thoughts from my past that I thought were long gone". Maybe you could try to accept that they are just memories - not actually relevant thoughts in the present time. You had moved on from them - it makes sense to believe that you still have, it's just the after-effects of the surgery and anaesthetic (which I have heard can take weeks and weeks to fully leave your system) which have literally "stirred" things up.

I don't think you DO deal with them - you just try to stop yourself from the destructive spiral of thinking. A few weeks ago, I was angry about a particular person and situation and found myself going in those mental circles. It was driving me mad, I knew I had to stop it, but didn't know how. I found something - probably in the LP, honestly not sure - but I wrote it down on a piece of paper:

"STOP! These thoughts are not helpful and I have decided to think differently."

I literally carried the piece of paper around with me for a couple of days, read it and repeated it out loud every time the negative spiral thoughts came back. And it worked! I had to literally "shout down" the negative thoughts with what was on the piece of paper, but after a couple of days, they didn't come back. Stopping the negative thoughts and using the words "decided to" gave me back my power. And I was able to figure out a strategy for changing what was bothering me about the situation and the person.

I do hope some of this is helpful. And I'm sure you'll feel better in a few weeks, when the surgery effects have gone.

Juno