My Partners Depression

This is what I was referring to and it was from Minstrel and not Kathleen.

When working with couples, I always stress that depression is a condition that affects not just the individual but everyone around him. As awful as it is to live day-to-day under the cloud of depression, it is equally awful to watch someone you love experience that and to feel powerless to do anything to help him. Often, counselling or psychotherapy is as important for the spouse or family as it is for the individual.

It is also important for both you and your partner to understand that one characteristic of depression is distorted and excessivley pessimistic thinking - I don't mean in a psychotic sense - just in the sense that the negative pessimistic thinking is a distortion of objective reality. Thus, when he tells you he doesn't love you, he may be doing so as a way of trying to distance himself from you, or at that moment he may believe it, but either way it does not make it "true".

Another symptom of depression is reduced resilience - think of it as living all the time just below your threshold of tolerance for stress or frustration - any little thing becomes the "last straw" that pushes you over that threshold. That is why you see these outbursts of irritability or anger and again it's important to remind yourself that this is a symptom of depression and does not necessarily reflect his feelings about you.

That last paragraph explains the outbursts, "JUST LEAVE ME ALONE!" I do remember yelling that many times at family members. I would isolate for many many hours. I isolate now even more. Now I can stay alone for days at a time.

I am so glad your partner has a loving partner like you. Keep trying.

I very much recommend two books by Dorothy Rowe, which you might be able to get from your library - the first is "Depression - the way out of your prison" and the second is "Breaking the Bonds - Understanding Depression, Finding Freedom".

When you combine the wisdom in these books with the insights you can gain from the Depression Learning Path, you have an awesome set of tools to bring about change!

Best of luck, mel!

Kathleen

Dear Polly,
I am touched by your kindness. Thank you.
My partner and I did talk about the medication last year and he was angry that I wanted him to take something. I told him that it would take the highs away and also the very lows but eventually I accepted the fact that he wont and thats all there is to it.
When I knew him at first, he would sometimes become slightly withdrawn but mostly he was able to hide the truth of his moods for quite a while. It was only when I moved in with him that I understood what it was that I was up against. I had never heard of anything like it before and the first few times he told me that he didnt love me and that he didnt want me in his life, were a great shock to me. The truth is that it is still shocking to me that someone can hold you very lovingly in his arms on one day and not want any part of you on the next. It still hurts with an intensitity that I cannot put into words.
The strange part of it is that during the bad times, at night, when he gets into bed, he still puts his arms around me and holds me close! During the night he holds me close too. How can you not care for someone and still want them close to you? This is why I stay with him. And also because I believe that he is a wonderful humanbeing. A good sweet kind man with such a good sense of humour and a joy to be with sometimes. I am very much in love with him....
I will try and get hold of the books that yourself and kfedouloff have suggested. Your support is much appreciated.
Regards
Mel

I refer again to this from Minstrel.

It is also important for both you and your partner to understand that one characteristic of depression is distorted and excessivley pessimistic thinking - I don't mean in a psychotic sense - just in the sense that the negative pessimistic thinking is a distortion of objective reality. Thus, when he tells you he doesn't love you, he may be doing so as a way of trying to distance himself from you, or at that moment he may believe it, but either way it does not make it "true".

At one time I really thought I was autistic - a litle old, but I really did not want anyone to touch me, even get close to me. I do not know what it was I feared - I just had to be alone to feel safe. Minstrel also talked about the depressed person living on the threshold of his/her tolerance of stress or frustration. That really makes since to me too.

I can recall my entire life always being told no matter what I did that I could do better. Now as an adult I know they were trying to encourage me. At the time it only frustrated me more. I never felt I got the credit for my hard efforts. I also discovered that I am/was dyslexic. I taught myself to read. Another reason I isolated I think. I did not - I never have seen things the way most people see them. The way I was told by teachers that they were. My reality was always different. So I struggled much harder than most children my age to come up to be average. The adults around me never knew what I going through. In college my unique way of seeing things started to pay off. In art, my unique perspective was a plus. Social conformity is still a bit uncomfortable - I have learned to emphasize my making other people feel good - it takes the attention off me. It also makes me feel lonely at times.

This seems to be all about me and it may or may not have anything to do with your partner. I do share his fear of the medication. I encourage you to get the books and help yourself to understand more. Evetually perhaps he will come to realize that the medications offered now are so much better than even twenty years ago. They are coming up with more every day with less severe and fewer side effects. He might change his mind about them.

Stick with it, Mel. I thank you too for your kind words. I am glad that something I might have said helps ease the situation you are in now.

Polly

Hi Mel,

I'm a new member and have been reading your posts with enormous interest.

My husband was diagnosed with clinical depression yesterday morning. For the last 2 years I have been living with the exact same situation as you have. The lack of affection, the irritability, the snappyness, the anger... everything you describe. I nearly cried when I realised that I was not alone in this situation. To find out that the condition is very much a real thing, for me was a real relief, if that makes sense. We had an absolutely god awful row on Monday night and I said things I would not have said to my worst enemy. I told him I hated him and that I truly regretted marrying him. That I felt my life with him was a waste and that I no longer wanted to be part of it. I told him I felt I deserved better than the kind of abuse I have put up with so long. I also told him I was ashamed of him and that I thought he was a spineless coward because he always ran away when I tried to talk to him.

I now feel deeply ashamed for having said all those things. However, it did push him to go and see the doctor and get help. Since yesterday, I have found this website and another one that advises on how a partner can help. To my horror it listed all the do's and don't and I did everyone of the don'ts, telling him to pull himself together, to snap out of it, to stop being such a miserable so and so... etc etc....

I am now standing on the threshold of a totally new situation. Can I handle this? I still feel a lot of bitterness and resentment for the treatment I have received for the last few years and although we are going to Relate, we only seem to end up rowing every time we go.. and then paying for the privilege when we leave.

I am desperate to understand his condition and I really need to learn how I can help him without destroying myself in the process. Right now I feel terribly confused to the point where I can't even admit to myself if I still love him. My resentment runs incredibly deep. But I still I remember the fun, jolly cheerful man I once fell in love with. Yesterday morning I had made up my mind that I was going to walk, now that I have read this, I want to try and help.

Nadia

Mel/Nadia

I've been going through what your going through for over 11 years, but the last bout has been 3 and half years, and I did everything you have. A few weeks ago he said he was leaving me. I posted a message on the site 'devastated'.

After that I went away with work for 3 days and never phoned home, when I came home I asked him if he had missed me. He said no, but I didn't believe him. Like you I got to the stage where I thought enough is enough and I told him that night that I needed to move on and it didn't include him. This totally shocked him because i have been so emotional up to then. He went on the internet to talk to his counsellor and came to bed at 2am and hugged me and said that he didn't want to loose me and that he loved me. I said he was just saying that, his reply was he wanted the good times back and he needed to sort himself out and he can't take back all the hurt that he has given me and feels very guilty. He is now slowly coming round, but he does lapse into his world occasionally. He was told by his counsellor not to go to Relate and it wouldn't help. I got frustrated on Monday evening and said I wanted to be happy and not like this anymore. I felt very guilty! He has been out of work for 17 months now, but he has 4 interviews lined up in the next 3 weeks. I am so proud of him, I returned from work today and he has cleaned the house for me. he's now at a counselling session, so I can freely come on the computer. To know that there are others who are suffering like me makes it easier for me to cope. When I write about it I get very emotional. We will get there in the end and I love him so much that I am prepared to work at it after 19 years together and producing a lovely son.

Sorry to go on, I would normally send a PM but I felt it might be useful for other partners to understand their not on their own there are probably quite alot of us around going through this in socirty behind closed doors.

Angelina

Mel, Angelina, and Nadia:

Roger said something very well to someone else at another post. Just incase you did not see it, I want to quote it here.

I think it might be helpful for you and your girlfriend (partner/spouse) to sit down together and work out what would need to happen / what you would need to know, for you to both be confident that this (the angry outbursts) won't happen again.

Then you can go about learning what you both need to know, doing what you need to do to make sure you are both happy with the situation.

I would suggest that this might include you both collaborating on creating a list of warning signs that you keep and put your signatures to, with an agreement on what action you will take if the warning signs are spotted. You could also create an agreement on what action your girlfriend (partner/spouse) is allowed to take should you not follow the action plan you have created, such as moving out after an agreed period.

Your girlfriend (partner/spouse) would also benefit from learning about depression by reading the learning path.

Hope this helps

Roger

And please be patient. Don't let one lapse end the whole plan. Don't punish too quickly - I mean leave. Reminders and repitition help so much. I wish you all three, and all the rest of you out there who are struggling and suffering with a depressed friend, lover, partner, spouse, any family member. I know it must be hard, but I think all or at least most of us depressed individuals want help and need your support if you can stick it out with us. And I also, at the same time, encourage you to do what you need to do for you to take care of yourself.

Best of luck and God Speed to you all.

pollyanna

Thank you for your kind words. I'm told that you (person depressed) can not talk about their problems to their closet person (spouse), is this true? As my husband keeps saying this to me, and thats what I get frustrated about. I want to help him, but how? So far, I'm there for him when he needs me, and I try to ignore the nasty side. When I feel we are going to have an argument I ask if I can ask a question or tell him how I am feeling. Then he knows I feel uncomfortable. This seems to work for us now.

I would love to know how to use the emoticons, can anyone explain ?

Talking seems to help. Must go he will be back from the counsellor shortly.

Thanks

Angelina

Angelina, all I can do is tell you about me. As you well know men are different. It is very difficult for most men to even recognize their feelings and almost impossible for them to articulate them in words, even if they wanted to. I think it is a specialized-educated man who can do these things - like having gone thru some therapy. There are some extremely intelligent and talented men on this site who can do that. I am continually astonished by them.

Your partner is going to a counselor. That is terrific! That means he recognized that there is a problem or at least life could be better. Maybe realizes that he could learn better ways to communicate how he feels to you. He is obviously trying. I am so happy to hear that.

Forgive, I have forgotten who said this but someone said she and her spouse could signal one another beofre things got out of hand. I think that is half the battle won already. In some of my (failed) relationships I used to wish that we could do something to warn each other about a bad mood before we even spoke, "Hello, how was your day?" I read once that one couple did it this way: The man would wear a baseball cap turned around backwards. That meant, "Don't even talk to me before I have time to settle down a bit. I will come to you when I am ready." The woman would wear an apron put on backwards, tied in front and apron in the back. That meant pretty much the same thing. I always liked that idea.

I saw a tee shirt today that fits in here too. The front says, "I am having a BAD DAY!" and something else. I sort of wished I had some of those.

Now, back to your question. When I was younger I had no idea I was depressed or that there was anything wrong. There were times I thought the whole world hated me and was against me and everyone was trying to make my life as miserable as possible. Come to think of it, I guess I still do. I just changed doctors after being with this man for many, many years because I thought he was getting meaner and meaner. I am now with a woman doctor and so far doing well. I think at first, everything is someone elses fault.

In therapy I have been told that I am very unique because: one, I do remember being happy in the past. Most depressed people do not. They think life has always been and always will be awful! So, if your partner can remember the good times and wants to try to make life better - you are on your way. (BTW it might be a bumpy ride.) two, which is only a recent observation after many years of therapy and medication, I recognize that I create much of my own stress, and the negative thinking comes from me, not outside me. I am still learning.

How to talk to me when I am depressed? I honestly dont think there is a way. Sometimes, I just have to be alone for a period of time. For me, even touch is painful. Hugs are rare and a person really has to earn the right to hug me. I do not like strangers, new therapists hugging me. I have been in therapy when I realized that I was providing the therapy for the therapist. YUKKY! I know that is different for you and your partner. "I love you" and compliments are hard for me too. To begin with I distrust them. I don't believe them. It makes me more on guard. But you see, this is me and not your partner.

I think you and he have to work out the correct, safe, and helpful ways to communicate your caring. For me, your just being there waiting for him to get better would do it for me. Your wanting to be an active part of the plan for me would be fantastic. I hope it is for you and your spouse too.

Thanks for posting and good luck with the process.
I think if want to insert one of the emoticons, just click on it where the cursor is where you want it.

Angelina,

I have thought more about your question. I think I have to admit - if I had a spouse I would not be able to talk to him about my bad feelings, my depression. I would feel it would surely turn him away for good forever.

I do not have any close friends here where I live now. With the casual acquaintenances I do have - I try my best to pretend to be normal.

I hope you and your spouse can work out a better way.

Polly

Hello All,

It is now a few weeks since I last wrote. It is not always easy for me to access this site.

The intervening weeks were good, wonderful, happy weeks. From the 5th of April until the 29th of April. We were planning a new future together and a summer holiday too... Life was bright and beautiful and the future looked good. On Thursday, he was irritable with me. I was tired and I walked away. We had a tiff. Friday evening I wanted to discuss what had happened and why something had gone wrong. He became nasty. Doesnt love me, doesnt want to be with me and wants a separate life. AGAIN. No future, no holiday. A planned weekend spent together was cancelled because 'I dont want to spend the weekend with you'. 'I wanted to then but not now'. 'Go your separate way', etc, etc

Worse than that was to follow. For Christmas he bought me a beautiful gold heart with a diamond on a chain. I treasured this but because of the meaning of the gift, I wasnt able to wear it when he was having all those 'down' days but two weeks ago, I took it out and put it on and wore it all the time. He thanked me for wearing it. I loved wearing it - it was my most prized possession. Last night, whilst this row continued, I asked him to take open it so I could take it off. He just reached up and broke it. I was devastated by thespitefulness of his action. He said it was my fault because I hadnt wanted it before. He just snappped it. How can I describe the pain of his action.

Polly, I have found your input most helpful again. Your writing to Angelina saying you couldnt talk to any partner about your depression and bad feelings. He told me again last night that he didnt want to tslk because of the awful things that came out. I would hope that he would know that I care about him and would continue to be there for him.

Interesting too in your saying 'I do not have any close friends here where I live now. With the casual acquaintenances I do have - I try my best to pretend to be normal' You have, in describing yourself, discribed my partner exactly! This, Polly, is exactly the way he is.

I am amazed Polly about what you have written about not wanting to be hugged. When my partner is in his mood, he does not want to be hugged or touched whereas I feel much better when I am hugged or kissed. I tell him I love him in the hope that he will feel better - how much I have learned from your description of distrusting people whjo want to be kind to you. I have noticed that my partner will be nasty to me and if I do not take note, he will tell me that he said something or other to show me that he doesnt like me, doesnt respect me, etc. I have felt that he takes great pleasure in hurting me so I do not react to his bad behaviour.

You know what amazed me most last night when we had this row was the fact that he said he wanted to finish because he couldnt forget the past and had fears that one day he would come home and I wouldnt be there! Why then, does he push me away?

Angelina - I found it interesting that your husband had been this way for three years. My partner has alwsys been this way I think but apart from this past month when we hd a few weeks of peace and quiet, before that we had almost three months of constant on/off behsviour.

To continue.... I pressed submit instead of preview!

Nadia - I found your post interesting. Its so comforting to know that this we are not alone in what is happening to us. I know what you mean about knowing that someone else is able to understand what you have gone/are going through.

Those awful rows that you have when you wonder what has possessed you to say the things that you do! I said things last night - I wanted so badly to put things right with him - say things thst would bring back the warmth once again. I have gone away for this weekend and he rang me today. The coldness in his voice - any stranger in the street would have been warmer to me. No matter what he says or does, the responsibility for those things is always mine! I suppose it is humiliating to have someone behave towards you as though you are non-existant - I have this feeling sometimes that I am worthless, useless, ugly - because I am unable to shake him out of his mood and warm him up again.

I too have tried but erred in what I have done. Also I find it difficult to just 'leave' the conversation and stop talking and just cover everything with a veil and move forward. He is not interested in taking medication or seeing anyone. He will make promises to me and then say 'I meant it then' 'I have changed my mind' He thinks that the way he is is the way everyone is and he says it is only 'temper'.

I too feel a great need to understand the condition and have found this site extremely helpful. There are people here on this site who have gone out of their way to offer support and information and assistance. It touches me greatly that people can care so much.


I am glad for you that your husband has sought help - this certainly means that things are likely to improve for you both. I love my partner very much. For me, the room lights up when he enters it. He is my soulmate, the love of my life, the very centre of my world. However, all the positive things turn completely negative when he turns on this coldness and the person that I fell in love with goes 'away'.

Unfortunately, the good advice here to find a way to end the moods when they are about to start, I am unable to put into good use. There is nothing that Id like more than to help this man who means everything to me.

Apologise for the outpouring this evening - I feel very very low with this latest change. Stupid of me, I know but I had hoped that things would be better for always...

Mel

"He told me that he had insecurities that he took out on me. We talked about the aguments we had had and how it was impossible to say things becuse he took it the wrong way. He said that every time we had an argument, he felt that the relationship was over.
Things improved from there. He has become loving again. Just like a switch turned on where for the last months, the switch has mostly ben turned to 'off'. He kisses me and hugs me and holds me. He asks me how I am now and is concerned about how I feel. Life is better for now.
I dont know how long this reprieve will last. I dont know how to press the 'hold' button and stop the next 'down'. I am hoping that we will have learnt something from the difficult months that have gone by. I dont know whether we have the ability to STOP the bad days... I dont know how he has managed to go from COLD and unfeeling o WARM and loving. How can he do that?"

He may be suffering from depression...but your husband's real 'issue' may be abusiveness.

If you have questions or concerns about the dynamics of abusive and controlling behavior, an excellent site is: http://www.drirene.com/cyclesof.htm

There are many good links and pages there.

-B

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Hello, again, Mel. I sincerely hope things are going better for you. One thing is sure - whether your partner has depression or not - ANGER MANAGEMENT is a skill that can be learned. FAIR FIGHTING is a skill that can be learned too. And that is something that you can learn and whether he goes to a therapist, group, or reads the books with you will not matter. You can learn the rules of fair play and implement them. You can set the boundaries for your own protection so that he does not abuse you verbally or emotionally. If you feel you need this, please look into it. I think it is very helpful and everyone (mentally healthy or not) could benefit by it.

I wish you well.

Mel, I have hesitated mentioning this in the past because your situation may be and probably is very different from mine. But I was once in a long term relationship before I went to therapists for depression. So, this was before I was diagnosed or took any medication. I knew I was not as happy with this man as I had hoped to be when we began our friendship and decided to move into the same house together. We each kept our own houses and rented them. THANK GOD!

I talked him into going to a therapist - for communication lessons. I thought we both could learn from that. Well, I do not remember how long we were in therapy together when we both and the therapist too, but she did not really count, decided that we did not belong together. When we were not in therapy - I was unhappy. When we were in therapy - he was unhappy. So, we went our separate ways.

Things he did that I did think were fair - he refused to listen to. He knew he was right. He could do or say anything he wanted to. I got sick in the middle of the night one time and was in the bathroom vomitting my guts out. The noise woke him. He got very mad at me because I did not wake him earlier. HUH? No sympathy, no care, just anger. I was the one who did the wrong thing by not waking him first before going to the bathroom. P-L-E-A-S-E! What do you think of when you wake up in the middle of a sound sleep and feel like you are going to heave?

One time on a camping trip in Alaska - Mount Mckinley - in September. The eggs were coming out of their shells frozen - so, you know it was cold! At night going to bed one night, I got inside my sleeping bag to undress and left my longjohns on to sleep in for warmth. He got so angry with me he threatened to leave me there and drive back home. My purse with all my identification and any money I had was in the truck. He would have taken it with him. How I would have gotten myself home - or anywhere for that matter - on foot with a tent and two sleeping bags and no money or ID - I have no idea. But at the time I did not care. I felt safer being rid of him in the condition he was at the time than worrying about getting home. He did leave and somehow calmed down and came back. The rest of the trip went better.

But you can see why I was unhappy. I am sue your partner is not displaying that kind of behavior. I am glad for you. Keep trying.

Love Ya.