My Partners Depression

Hi Mel

Firstly -a big welcome to UncommonForum - I hope we will be able to help.

I must say that this sounds extremely difficult to live with, and it sounds like you are doing an amazing job considering the circumstances.

I would say that your husband needs to decide that he isn't going to put up with this any more and actively pursues help - I'm not sure there's much you can do to help otherwise.

One thing that may help him get to that point is to de-stigmatise depression and to help him understand what practical steps he can take to manage it if he feels it coming on.

I recommend that both of you complete our Depression Learning Path - this will give you a much better idea of what depression is and what you can do about it.

And maybe some of our other members will have some ideas for you too.

All the best

Roger

Hi Roger,

Thank you for your response.

Indeed he is extremely difficult to live with....especially when he looks me straight in the eye and tells me that he does not love me and want us to separate... I KNOW in my heart that he does not mesn it though but still, it is hard to take... Thank you for your kind words - I sppreciate it.

I had thought as much. He is not willing to seek help - either medication or counselling so I suppose that he is in charge of the way things are. From my point, I will NOT allow him to upset me any further and we'll just have to see how long it will take until his dark cloud lifts... He seems better when I am firmer with him than when I get upset.

I shall certainly complete the Depression Learning Path. I have read through it snd was astounded by wht I have leart so far. It is almost as though someone else knows him! I was absolutely amazed!

I look forward to hearing some of the comments from other members.

Mel

Hi Mel

Sounds like it can be really tough for you! Have you noticed a particular pattern to his low moods?

Does he, for example, suffer worse during winter months.

Is this time of year connected to any sad anniversary or does it all seem to be completely random?

Has he stopped doing things he usually enjoys? Does he feel he has status in life?

One things for sure youalso need support. I hope you have understanding friends/family around you.

Best wishes

Mark.

Dear Mark,

Your post was very welcome. Thank you very much.

It is hard and sometimes I am uncertain as to whether it IS the depression that has made him turn so cold towards me or whether he simply doesnt care about me any more. I have looked at the description of depression and read through everything on the site and I can see that he definitely has signs of it - the irritability, the tiredness, etc.

However, as on a day like today when I was away from home and was due to have a small op on my wrist, he has not bothered to call to see whether I have had it or how I am! The pure nastiness and spitefulness is something that I cannot understand no matter how hard I try.

I dont think it is worse in the winter. The pattern is the same in that he wants responsibility in his job but when he gets too much, he becomes overtired and irritable and becomes withdrawn from his bad sleep patterns. I bear the brunt of the withdrawal and moodswings that follow suite.

He became withdrawn at New Year as he recalled a previous year which had not been happy for him. I think things have become worse since then. He is still effected by being badly bullied as a teenager but I am afraid that I have no further details. He doesnt seem to want to do anything at all except sit infront of the tv. He gives the impression though to other people that everything is fine and dandy and 'pretends' that he is in a wonderful happy mood. So he will go and meet his boss or work late if asked to. Only at home, is it possible to see what he is really like....

At home he is cold and uncaring - these last couple of months. Sometimes, although I FEEL that he cares for me, I feel as though the things he does are especially for my benefit to show me that he cares not. He did tell me 'I have gone away and I am not coming back. I know that you are waiting for me to be the way I was and I wont be.' Sometimes he will forget for a moment that he doesnt love me but when he remembers he withdraws again!

Most of all I wish that I knew what to do and say to him and how to behave towards him for the best. I am afraid that I just dont know!

I am lucky in that I have warm friendships - whatever would I do without them!

Thank you so much for your kindness. It is much appreciated.

Mel

Hi Mel, It's difficult not to feel your pain when one reads your story. Reaching out as you have is a good move. Sometimes speaking with others who are not your family or friends can help. You can be totally open without worrying if you should say this or that. The fact that he at the moment does not want to get some sort of help must be very difficult for you because your in a situation were you're unable to see any light at the end of the tunel. Someone suggested that support during this time is very important. It's good to hear you have good friends. If you need some support out side your circle of friends/family, a counselor could be helpful. As they can support you also, but the support would be objective, in that they are not emotionally or other wise envolved with you and your life. When I read what you've written it feels that you feel a bit lost as what to do. Talking to a councelor might help in helping you focus on yourself and your needs and wants, and as someone has said your partner has to decide himself to get help. I am new here to this forum and hope that what I wrote would be of support not otherwise.
All the best,
Tangerine

Mel, I am not married, but I have lived with different people over the years of my depression and I am sure any one of them could readily relate to your story. They say I get angy when I do not feel angry. I think I hate myself at times because I am not the way I once was - cheerful, energetic, imaginative, creative, fun to be around. I suppose I push people away and I know I have "fired" alot of friends from my life over the years. No one has been able to stick by me like you are trying to do with your husband. I commend you for that.

I want to share a little about a movie I saw about a snow monkey. The study took place over several years. The photographers followed a group of snow monkeys showing several generations. One incident that really stuck with me was one female's still birth. She picked up the dead infant and carried it around for days, trying to nurse it and feed it as though it was alive. Finally the photographers took it away from her. She cried, mourned and went into depression, lethargic, not interacting with the others, laying around listless. The others sort of ignored her, but they were all in physical contact all the time. One scene showed the depressed monkey spread over a rock (looked like a rug with arms and legs) and the other monkeys all around her grooming each other as though she was not there. She eventually came back to interacting with the others, had another baby and that one lived. (I love a Happy Ending!)

My point is - when I first saw this film I immediately related to the depressed female and I wished I could be part of my family's outings like she was in hers. They seemed to accept her as she was. They did not preach to her about being better or different. They let her be whatever she was and let her come back to them on her own terms. I have chosen to stay away from my family because they cannot accept me. They are constantly trying to change me, preaching at me, preaching about me to other people, etc. If I am not free to be what I really am - how can I change?

Perhaps your husband is like me. Perhaps he is really hating himself when he says he doesn't love you anymore. Perhaps he says he wants a separation because being with you is a painful reminder to him that he cannot love you the way he used to (perhaps the way he wants to). If you were out of his life, he would be in a better situation to end his life. I have many times kept myself alive because I did not want to leave suicide as an example to my nieces and nephews.

Perhaps he wants to know that you will stay by his side even when he acts not so nice - while he learns new ways of thinking and a new way of loving himself. I hope the two of you can help each other to see what the other needs to stay together and grow as individuals as well as a couple. You need him to be respectful of your feelings as well. You can certainly put down some basic ground rules. You can help him see different ways of seeing situations.

I apologize. I am rambling. I do not make much sense. I just thought I might help you see the situation from a different perspective. It may not even be this way for him. I wish you well with your endeavor.

When working with couples, I always stress that depression is a condition that affects not just the individual but everyone around him. As awful as it is to live day-to-day under the cloud of depression, it is equally awful to watch someone you love experience that and to feel powerless to do anything to help him. Often, counselling or psychotherapy is as important for the spouse or family as it is for the individual.

It is also important for both you and your partner to understand that one characteristic of depression is distorted and excessivley pessimistic thinking - I don't mean in a psychotic sense - just in the sense that the negative pessimistic thinking is a distortion of objective reality. Thus, when he tells you he doesn't love you, he may be doing so as a way of trying to distance himself from you, or at that moment he may believe it, but either way it does not make it "true".

Another symptom of depression is reduced resilience - think of it as living all the time just below your threshold of tolerance for stress or frustration - any little thing becomes the "last straw" that pushes you over that threshold. That is why you see these outbursts of irritability or anger and again it's important to remind yourself that this is a symptom of depression and does not necessarily reflect his feelings about you.

Thank you all for your warm responses. I am sorry that I have taken so long to respond. The trouble that you have taken in allowing me to see things from the other side, is much appreciated.
Tangerine:
Thanks for your support and understanding. I do feel very lost. There have been many times when the whole life that I lead with him, feels so unreal. His family have accepted the way he is all of his life and this makes me angry as surely when he was a child, his parents should have made sure that he was given medication instead of joking about his moods? His mother told me with some pride that it was a family trait - the grandfather, the father, my partner and now his daughter too. If he had been my child Id not have allowed this condition to continue without him getting help. When he took the antidepressants last year (he took them for one month) he said with great surprise 'I thought that everyone was the way I am'
Pollyanna:
As I read through your post, a light went on in my head. You made very good sense. I understood exactly what you were saying and it recalled clearly things that my partner has said to me. No, you werent rambling, not at all - just being so caring and helpful that it brought tears to my eyes.
Yes, he gets angry but says he isnt. He becomes easily irritable with me for almost no reason that I can see. Sometimes it is like treading on eggshells. He has told me many times that he hates himself and not least because he hurts me so much.
On his good days, he is happy, funny as can be, warm and affectionate like a kitten. He can be kind and helpful and loving and wonderful company. On his down days, he is negative, spiteful and nasty, cold and unloving. And boring too.... I can hug him and hold him and he will look out of the window and not respond. I will ask him something and his answers are 'No idea' or 'Dont know'. And yes, he pushes me away. If I try to talk to him, it ALWAYS ends in a nasty argument. I have started giving as good as I get now and retaliate with nasty comments as he does. It isnt very nice. It is horrible.
Sometimes, Polly, even I am not sure why I stick with him. Perhaps it is because I dont feel that the relationship has run its course. Perhaps, because I know that under the nastiness, is the lovely man I fell in love with and who is my soulmate. What can I say but that I adore him - even now. When he walks into the room, my mouth curls into a smile. When I see him, my heart still misses a beat. I love the look of him and the feel of him. I must admit that I have lost friends because people expect me to leave him and they dont like the fact that I have not yet left him. I dont want to leave him. I want to grow old with him. I know that he has a problem. If he broke his leg and I left him, people wouldnt think much of me then, would they!
I understand clearly what you described about the monkey. I found that very helpful. It helped me understand your feelings. (I too love happy endings and was glad of one there)
With my partner, he has never mentioned this but I notice that he has minimal contact with his family although he professes to care about them. I wonder whether his reason is the same as yours. I am very warm to him. I have a son - he no longer wants contact with my partner - but when he was in contact, my partner loved the warmth and friendliness that my son offered him. My partner told me that he was always 'apart' from everyone else. I can understand that you would want acceptance - I think that we all want that. I love and admire my partner - I LIKE the person that he is. Id like the moods to stop but I want the person to be who and what he is. I think he finds it difficult to understand that I love the person that he is, as he is.
Its strange that he seems to be able to control the way he feels. It is as though he can turn himelf on and off just like a tap. I cannot do that. I found what you said about him hating himself when he says he doesnt love me, exactly what he himself has told me. I have felt that he cannot always accept my love for him because he has none for himself.
I know that he tried suicide when he was younger. Im glad you have decided against it - it makes a very heavy burden for those who you leave behind. You seem to me to be too kind a person to visit that on anyone.
When last we spoke he said that I was tenacious for remaining in the relationship and we discussed the fact that we have now become disrespectful of one another and that we needed to change that. He gave me his word that things would change and I hope that he will stick to that.
Minstrel:
I have learned unfortunately, from this experience that what you say is true. This depression definitely affects more than just him. I have felt very upset myself when he withdraws and without my strong network of friends, I would never have got this far.
I understand from his behaviour that whenever he feels negative, he becomes pessimistic. He doesnt have the ability that I have of 'bouncing' back up again once he is down. But with him, suddenly after days and night of darkness, he can suddenly revert to being this lovely person again.
I found your comments about him saying he doesnt love me and distancing himself from me, very helpful. Your comments about WHY he is irritable and the fact that that does not reflect his feeling about me were helpful too - this will give me something to hang on to.
Thank you very much.
Thank you all for your input - I am grateful.
Mel

Hi,
I thought Id write an update as well here to let you know how things have been for me with my partner in the last months or so since I initially posted about his depression.
Those months were worse than any I have ever known before. I had a birthday and he completely disregarded it... A leapyear one at that. Never even wished me well! We had an anniversary and this got the same treatment. The same for Valentines Day! The pain of it all was more than I can possibly put into words here. I just hurt so much.
He went away on business in March and when he came back, I found a note saying he had missed me. He then appeared to be sorry that he had said that! He bought me flowers once, then threw them in the bin.
I felt that I was becoming depressed as I cried very easily and was getting a very short fuse with other people. I found it difficult to work, difficult to talk to people, difficult to live my life. I just wanted to be on my own. When I was with him, I behaved as though everything was fine and dandy - chatted and laughed and was mostly affectionate. Cooked his meals, did his washing, made his sandwiches. My stomach hurt all the time, I had bad indigestion, I was tense. We had some BIG BIG rows when we both said things that normal intelligent people dont ever say! Things usually quietened down down afterwards - for a day or so, that is... Life was like living on a time bomb. Day after day, fter day...
Last week, we had yet another row. This time I told him that I didnt love him either. Told him that he was boring and that I had reached the end of my tether. He asked why I was still there and I said because it was convenient for me... Then I went away for a couple of days.
When I returned, he was ill and I was very weepy from all the stress. I couldnt stop crying. We talked. Properly. No shouting or screaming or recriminations of anything like that. I just told him how I felt. How sad and lonely I was, how hurt and how I found life so unbearable. I told him that I had lied to him and that I still loved him. That I always had and no doubt always would. He told me that he had insecurities that he took out on me. We talked about the aguments we had had and how it was impossible to say things becuse he took it the wrong way. He said that every time we had an argument, he felt that the relationship was over.
Things improved from there. He has become loving again. Just like a switch turned on where for the last months, the switch has mostly ben turned to 'off'. He kisses me and hugs me and holds me. He asks me how I am now and is concerned about how I feel. Life is better for now.
I dont know how long this reprieve will last. I dont know how to press the 'hold' button and stop the next 'down'. I am hoping that we will have learnt something from the difficult months that have gone by. I dont know whether we have the ability to STOP the bad days... I dont know how he has managed to go from COLD and unfeeling o WARM and loving. How can he do that?
This is my update. Id value your comments.
Regards
Mel

Hello, Mel. I am so happy to read that things have improved now. I am also saddened for the past few weeks prior when your spouse was neglectful, hurtful, spiteful, and so disagreeable. Life is so short and what we give to one another (not material things, I mean of ourselves, our attention, our respect, our caring and love) is what makes it all so rich and worthwhile.

By the way, HAPPY BIRTHDAY! You are a beautiful woman and human being and I am glad you were born. The day of your birth is a day to celebrate! I also want to offer you a Happy Anniversary. I admire the way you spoke of your spouse and how you still feel the love for him that caused you to fall in love with him years ago. I hope you can remember always that it is HE that you love and it is his behavior that you cannot accept. You have the right to draw that distinction. You owe it to yourself to keep his words and actions from making you ugly too.

I understand that he does not want therapy or medication. I assume any kind of group therapy would be out of the question also. Do you think it is possible to work with him, just the two of you, when he is in a receptive mood? The Cognitive Behavioral Therapy thought guide really helps me to keep from jumping off the deep end when I feel like suicide is the only answer to my pain.

You start with the event, situation that was going on when the MOOD happened. You then describe the feelings, emotions and thoughts associated with the event or situation. The more specific the better! Then you pick out "HOT THOUGHTS" from the descriptions. "I am stupid." "I am unloveable." "I am tired of living." " I cannot do anything right." "Everyone would be better off if I were gone." Then you rate them from 1- 10 on intensity. Then you list supporting evidence that the statements are true. For a depressed person - this can be the fun part! Then comes the difficult part: List the reasons the statements are not true, or at least not true ALL the time. List the evidence not in support of the statements. Then rate the mood again. Usually the Stress Level comes down a bit, if not all the way. Sometimes I am still upset, but I have hope. I can function until I do feel better. Most the time I come away from the exercise feeling more "HUMAN" - not "PERFECT" but okay. I do have the right to be here, to live and to love and be loved.

This exercise works best if done on paper and kept like a diary. In the beginning it is so hard and frustrating that it hardly feels worth the effort. But after a short while it become easier and easier and pretty soon you are doing it more automatically without the paper exercise.

I used to want to kill myself because I had a flat tire. A few weeks ago I ran out of gas in a very busy intersection and I started into one of my panic attacks when every thought is negative, no selfworth, suicide is the only answer. I was able to push the car into a shopping mall driveway. Iwent into the closest store and asked to borrow the telephone. Then the panic really began to take over. I did not know what to do with the phone. My thoughts were racing so fast and all I could think to do is throw a fit and end up in the hospital again. I stopped myself by going through the exercise I just described. I got myself quiet, stopped crying, breathed deeply and slowly and WOW!! what a miracle happened! The store manager helped me push the car up a hill to a parking spot (although an illegal one) and I called for towing and all ended well. There was alot more that happened too, but not important. I think I gave the highlights important to illustrate my success. I was heading for disaster so fast.... and because I had the Cognitive Behavioural Exercise so well practiced....I was able to pull myself out of it.

I do not give this story to brag about my success, but to offer you hope for your spouse. Perhaps he can learn from it and the path taught here on this site. It seems to me that you and he could do it together at times when he is in a receptive mood. I hope it or something else from this site will be of help. I really cannot tell you how much I admire you for wanting to stick with him and try to help save the relationship. Please don't make yourself sick trying to do it.

I send you my love and prayers and support. I am glad you choose to do the things you do. I think YOU know what is best for you. YOU GO GIRL!!!

Hi Pollyanna,
Your reply was very welcome. Thankyou. Many thanks too, for your kind wishes.
I was interested in what you wrote of cognitive therapy. Thank you for going to the trouble of explaining it to me. I think that if I am able to I would try this. I am not sure how receptive he would be though bcause his belief is that this is the way he is - he has nothing like depression or mood swings... I am not sure how to begin.. I understand though how helpful it has been for you.
At present he is wonderful but I DO know that unfortunately, things will not stay this way. You know, I find it so strange that a couple of weeks ago, he didnt love me, couldnt stand being with me in the same house, didnt want to be with me. Now he loves being with me - I see it in his behaviour, in his expression, in the way he talks to me. I find it all very strange. What do you think he is feeling when he says all those awful things to me? I think it must be quite frightening, not knowing what mood you will be in.
My partner is such a sweet and loving person - its a great pity that he has to suffer like this. This is the reason that I want to be with him - when he is okay, he is quite wonderful. We have had some such wonderful times together. He can be nasty and spiteful but he can be warm caring and loving and such great fun too. Yes, such a pity that those wonderful times are intersperced with the awful ones. I hope that I can help him make a difference to his life.
I admire your warmth too. The fact that suffer you may BUT you have taken the time to help another. I think that is wonderful. Making a difference to someone else life is very important and it is what you arre doing.
Keep in touch please, Pollyanna - please let me know how you get on.
Regards
Melissa

Mel, I am so happy that things are going well now. I cannot explain the mood swings even when I had them. I know I had them because other people told me about it later. They say I was just like my mother and then I got great detail about her mood swings. Unfortunately my mother never got any help or understanding. She died when I was eighteen. I did get help. I am so much better now. I hope your partner can find a way that seems right for him.

Mental illness still has such an ugly and scary stigma. I have suggested things to a brother-in-law like, "There are always new ways to make our lives better, more comfortable, etc. Like taking a class in anything. Why not take a class in communication, assertiveness, anger control, etc." It sounds as though your partner thinks all is well and probably would not go for it. When things swing the other way, it also sounds as though you need some good ways to communicate your love for him and ways to draw the line so he does not abuse you emotionally. I hope you can do this.

Since I have never been married, all I can only relate to my relationships in my family. They tell me I could be as sweet as could be one minute and then not allow anyone to touch or speak to me the next. I cannot recall ever telling anyone that I hated them, but my family, especially my stepmother used to say if looks could kill that she would be ten feet under ground. I cannot explain it. Chemicals in the brain not being what they should be I guess.

I admire you for trying to stay and help him. It is great that you can remember the good times. I hope they increase.

Nice to hear from you again.

Polly

Hi Polly,
Hearing what you have to say is good because it allows me a window on his feelings too. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your help.
I know that sometimes he just doesnt understand or know that he is an old grouch... He knows that he can be very nasty but feels that it is because he is just a nasty person. He also feels that if he were to take medication, it would make him into another person - not be true to himself. He has made it clear that there is nothing the matter with him apart from having a temper (!) and no need to take anything as he can control his moods...
I hear what you say about your mother. My partner has mood swings just like his father and his daughter is just like him too. The same kind of thing. Before Christmas, when I felt that things with him were on a downward spiral, I spoke to her and she told me what it was like before she took Prozak. She said that she would rant and rave at her boyfriend and throw things at him and that he took her forceably to the doctor. I asked her how she could behave in that way to someone she cared about and she said that she just didnt feel anything at all. She was on Prozak for a year then came off for a few months and is now back on it again. I think she will always have to take something but at least she understands that she must take something to have a good quality of life.
I try to make it clear to him that I care about him and he knows that. I would like to think that he would try not to be so spiteful and nasty. I sometimes wonder whether he will ever understand that he needs help so that we can have a long and happy life together. I kniow that he doesnt like himself very much and feel that because he feels that way about himself, he expects me to feel the same way too!
Interesting what you say about your stepmother. Perhaps you didnt realise the way you were - just like my partner, I dont think he realises the way he is either. I hear him when he is happy and having a 'up day' and he is wonderful to be with - an absolute joy. The 'down days' when he is nasty are awful. I try and keep out of the house as much as possible and when I do go home, I am happy and cheerful and chatty. I hug him and hold him and kiss him and pretend that I dont notice that he doesnt respond. I had always thought that were he to know how sad it makes me, he would behave differently. I see though, that he cannot control his behaviour without professional help.
Polly, thanks for taking the time to write to me.
Mel

Mel, I can remember many times even after I did seek help telling my doctor that there nothing wrong with me. I need a pill that will fix everyone else - so they can take me better. I am not sure what that meant, other than like your partner, I did not think I had a problem. In the beginning of my therapy many doctors thought I was bipolar or manic depressive. I never thought so because I never went manic. I have known people who are bipolar.

And your partner's comment about not wanting to take medication because it would make him not be true to himself -- I share that thought. Well, I certainly did then. The medication is suppose to take off the top of the manic swing and the bottom from the deprssion. I felt like a zombie on it. I am a very creative person (which is common for bipolar people) and even though I did not like the downs, I really missed the highs. I thought it took away all capability of any feelings: good or bad. But I stuck with it and we tried so many pills, I don't care to remember them all. And while I was in Alaska we found one that did work. I was still able to be creative and happy and did not go down so far into suicidal thinking.

AS you know, by my being here on this site and still seeking help, that was not the end. Maybe menopause when hormones are reeking havoc, and age, and job changes, moving to Arizona, any number of things could contribute to the change. I am back fighting the suicidal thoughts once again. I never found a partner like you and yours. My relationships lasted two or three years at most. So I never had children and never have been a part of a family. That is why I admire how you are trying so hard, even when it hurts you, to stay with him.

I know there are many books out there that are written to YOU. As Kathleen (I think it was) said, the whole family suffers. I wish I could remember a title for you now, but I cannot. Browse your library. I do remember one very good I found at a ? Mental Health referral service. Maybe your city has one too. Check your phone book. It was also like a lending library. I checked it out and return it in two weeks for FREE. Otherwise, these books cost $50-60 and upwards. I could not afford that no matter how much it helped me understand myself.

Two books I am uising now are David Burns, MD: "The Feeling Good Handbook" I had the original, "Feeling Good - The New Mood Therapy" book in paper back already. The Handbook is more like a workbook giving you exercises to do. The original in paperback made the print so small, it is difficult for me to read it. The Handbook is much bigger and has bigger print. I bought it on Amazon.com for $7.00. The other book is also another workbook called, "Mind Over Mood" "Change How You Feel by Changing the Way You Think". It is by Dennis Greeberger, PhD and Christine A. Padesky, PhD. This is the one that has the thought guide I was telling you about earlier. I think it was $20. I personally think it is wonderful.

Perhaps your partner might like it - at least it is private. You don't have to go to a clinic or to a doctor's office.

I hope you can find some help - if only to help you deal with the swings. It must be like living every moment waiting for the roof to cave in on top of you.

I will keep my eye out for those books focused on helping the family members of a depressed person too. I will send the titles later.

Hope all continues in the happy way it seems to be now.

Polly