The way out of your prison

Hi Lizzymint!

I agree - Dorothy Rowe's books are really excellent. What's especially good is that she avoids all technical jargon, and speaks about people's real experiences.

What did you find most helpful in her book?

Kathleen

I have to strongly disagree with the views expressed above. As a general recommendation for people suffering from depression, the Dorothy Rowe book on depression is one to be avoided at all costs.

Hi carvalho

I've heard good things about the Dorothy Rowe books and was about to go and buy one.

Why do you say the above book should be avoided at all costs?

Juno

Hey there Juno,

Rowe's books are interesting and they occasionally contain some pearls of wisdom but they all seem to suffer from the same weakness. She's very good at giving detailed explanations as to why we might hold certain ideas, where these ideas came from (childhood) and why these ideas might be detrimental to us, but she devotes little or no time to solutions.

Instead, she provides an unnecessarily lengthy and unfocused book in which she attempts to put down on paper everything she can think of about depression – this includes numerous poems about depression sprinkled liberally throughout the book, excerpts of ‘dark writing’ produced by patients and writers, and anecdotes about patients. The problem with this, and particularly with her approach (which is largely psychoanalytical), is that it tends to encourage the reader to brood on their problems, and churn things over in their minds again and again. As a part of a treatment model, this isn’t something that should be encouraged as it tends to exacerbate rather than reduce the symptoms of depression.

The descriptions of depression that Rowe adopts are taken from her patients – dark places, prisons, nothingness, bleakness, etc. People seems to relate to these descriptions and I have to admit that this is what got me to buy the book in the first place. Whilst I don’t have any problem in people sharing experiences, provided it is appropriate, there is a considerable danger that the use of such descriptive and emotionally evocative language emphasises the power of the very ‘prison’ that people are trying to get out of. Depression is a frightening and difficult experience at the best of times, and if Rowe is going to take the reader to such a ‘dark place’ through emphasis and re-emphasis, she has an ethical responsibility, in my opinion, to lead them of out it through a structured and focused practical treatment programme. This she patently does not do.

Even when she does (briefly) talk about solutions, she gives the impression that it's simple to change deeply rooted ideas that have built up over a lifetime - if you feel angry don't, if you're afraid have courage, if you’re feeling negative, don’t because it’s causing your depression. It's very condescending. If you’re at your lowest ebb, it’s the last thing that you’ll want to hear. She spends almost the entire book analysing psychological causes and ideas, and its not until the very last chapter that she finally divulges what she believes to be the solution - that it's the depressed person that has the built the prison of depression around them through the ideas that they hold and it's therefore the depressed person's choice as to whether they want to deconstruct the walls of that prison. No further explanation. No practical or structured treatment programme of behaviour led change. No mapping of daily routines and behavioural target setting. No depression inventories or depression scoring techniques to measure progress (and encourage further progress). No consideration of physiological contributors to depressive symptoms (Rowe simply doesn't believe that there is any biological basis for depression). Nothing. Which wouldn't be so bad, if she showed more warmth, empathy, encouragement and understanding throughout the book. I don't feel that she does this very well or at all. She uses the word 'we' alot but she shows nothing of herself and the style is cold and clinical in my view. However, it's the complete absence of a solution based focus and its emphasis on psychological rumination, which makes the book fundamental flawed, in my opinion, particularly, if it is to be taken as a form of treamtment for depression.

Rowe has a number of entrenched views which crop up as recurring themes in her books. As far as Rowe is concerned, the field of psychiatry is irrelevant and there is no biological component to depression (serotonin / norepinephrine levels, atrophy of neurons, disrupted sleeping patterns, physiological contributors etc). Whilst I don't have any problem with her expressing unusual or controversial views or providing a socialogical or philosophical, I don't believe that a book that is likely to be read by a person suffering from depression is the most appropriate place in which to do so. Depression can be a hugely debilitating condition and most people who read this book will simply not be in position to question what she says becuase of vulnerabilty, fear, difficulty in making decisions or lack of knowledge.

When I suffered from depression, the things that would have helped would have been warmth, empathy, understanding, encouragement, hope and most of all, someone or some method to pull me out of depression. In my opinion, a book that is focused on those aspects, is far more appropriate than the restrictive and limited approach taken by Rowe which focuses on introspective rumination. If this book is simply one of many on the subject that you're going to read, then fine, but have a think about what sort of position you're in with regard to depression before diving in. It's interesting hearing the views of others who have read this book - one person I met said that after they had finished reading the book, they were 'cured' of depression, which I find difficult to believe. Another person described the book as 'not for the depressed'. Personally, I can't recommend this book to anyone suffering from depression (particularly those with moderate to severe depression). There are far better books on treating depression or its surrounding causes. The David Burn's book is a good one and its also worth having a look at the NHS depression reading list.

Wish you well,

Carvalho

I didn't realise when I posted this subject it would provoke a debate! I'm glad to hear about other views regarding Dorothy Rowe's books.

For me, the book has provided what I need to hear and this will not necessarily be good for everyone. Rowe's description of depression has made me identify issues and made me feel that I am not alone. For me depression is a very isolating experience and I have found strength in the fact that I can recognise myself in her writing. By this I mean she mentions things that I can relate to which makes me feel that I am not the only one to have these feelings.

Her book has been of more help to me than anyone as I have not had people round me who have been willing to explore my feelings, maybe because they don't know what to say or maybe because they are in denial that it is happening to me.

Anyway, I just wanted to share something positive with the forum as I have not felt this positive about my life for many months, maybe even years.

Let the debate continue!!!

Hi carvalho (isn't that Portuguese name?) - welcome to the forum!

Thank you for posting in more detail why you wouldn't recommend Dorothy Rowe - you made some good points and it's interesting that we have such different views of her work! I guess that shows that it's horses for courses, as they say! And a good reason to keep looking among the books until you find the one that really works for you. It doesn't mean that the ones that don't work for you are necessarily bad - just that you don't have a 'fit' with them. I have found Rowe's work very useful and helpful - both personally and for my clients. Like you, I have also found David Burns excellent - I regularly refer to the "Feeling Good Handbook".

Kathleen

Hi carvalho

Thanks so much for taking the time to write such a detailed and informative review on Rowe's book. I really appreciate it.

I might take a look at it next time I'm in a bookshop, but having read what you've written, I don't think it's for me at this time. Having spent the last 7 years negatively ruminating, and writing a lot of my own deep, dark stuff, I don't feel inclined at all to jump back into that head space.

Also, one of the things that I really liked in the LP, was the point about not all types of therapy being right for depressed people. I saw one therapist for 6 years, and my psych for the past 8 years. They crossed, so that total length of time has been 10 years. I know a hell of a lot about my childhood, what went wrong, what contributed etc etc. I spent quite a lot of time - years - very angry and blaming as a result of what I learned. Was it constructive? Not really, some relationships became damaged beyond repair.

I could say it was helpful in that I saw "the truth" when I had misguidedly believed that my childhood had been perfect. But none of it focused on solutions.

So now, I intend to find a psychologist and do some skills-based training to avoid depression etc in the future and to help me rebuild my life now. Finding confidence etc, and comfort around new people.

I'm keen to do this, I think it's the right thing to do - but I am gutted and embarrassed that I will be doing yet more therapy. For years - about the last six - I have often thought "how come I've done all this therapy and still can't get it right? I must be really defective." So it came as quite a shock to read that not all therapy is effective for the depressed person. And it made just so much sense to me, based on my own experience.

So anything that delves back into childhood and the dark times of depression - no thanks, not for me!

Thanks again for taking the time to reply in such detail.

Juno