Rage control

Mr-Random wrote:Hi everybody. As the topic name says, I am curious about how to control my rage. I had a very hostile upbringing and where I grew up at, it was an area of defend yourself constantly or be beaten constantly. I now live in a very peacefull quiet neighborhood and that helps but Mr Hyde still dwells in me.

Last night was a horrible night which is why I am here now.
I had been drinking quite a bit of beer and was fairly intoxicated. My girlfriend came out yelling at me because I hadn't come inside yet. This angered me because I'm a grown man, was minding my own business. Naturally, I yelled back at her and things escalated. She got in my face and punched me. Upon that happening, pure rage ignited in me and I unloaded on her as though I were fighting a man. I feel completely horrible about this and deserve to. That was wrong regardless of her yelling and hitting me. I have no idea what clicked in my head but realized what I was doing and stopped instantly. Shes not hurt bad at all thank god but the look of terror in her eyes was and still is haunting me. We talked this morning and are fine now but she said when I snapped that I looked like I have no soul. Violence is always a last resort for me but I fear if I can lose control like that with my girlfriend, what could I potentially do to someone else. I wish I could wipe my memory of all self desfense skills and anger. That way I could never be a threat to anybody again.

Thanks for reading

Dear Random,

Wow! In many cases of Extreme Rage, the violence seems to be Beyond Control, and the best that we can hope for is that the Particular Enraged Person involved doesn’t have the Habitual Conditioning and Engrained Training to use Tactics and Techniques that would Kill, Blind, or Maim their Target… most Enraged people confine themselves to simple punching, slapping and kicking because they never really thought about doing anything Worse. You know, This should be a Warning to people who Study the Martial Arts, since they are conditioning themselves to be Very Deadly and Lethal, and they should think hard about what the probable consequences of that might be if they ever ‘Flipped Out’. (Case In Point: A friend of mine was ‘lucky’ to be Out of State when he was enraged in a strange bar one night and ‘Instantaneously’ broke off a beer bottle on the edge of the bar and ground it someone’s face’… he made a ‘getaway’ and nobody recognized him and so the Police Hunt went cold, but he read about it in the newspapers – he had entirely Blinded some poor man. It turns out that in his Self Defense Class they had had a Series of Practices and Training Exercises on how to utilize common household items as lethal weapons, and my Friend had remembered the Lesson all too well).

But… On to Your Case … this is what you said, “I have no idea what clicked in my head but realized what I was doing and stopped instantly.” You were able to Pull Back and Step Out. That is fantastic! Most People have to Ride Out their Entire Rage… they stop only when they get Exhausted. When I was married I once went so far as to make a Fist at my Wife, and it scared the bejesus out of both of us. But, in that moment, like you, I experienced that SHUT DOWN ‘Thing’. It is hard to explain, isn’t it? It is Wonderful that it Happens, but only sad that it does not kick in any sooner.

But, yes, you do Need more Self Control, and not just for your tendency for taking hostile actions against what are really Low-Risk Threats. For instance, you need to wonder why you would cohabitate with a woman who wouldn’t let you enjoy an evening out in the yard, having a few beers, if that is the kind of thing that you Enjoy in Life. I really think that SHE should be the One writing in to us here at the Anger Forum. After all, Look at what She Did! She ran out of the house screaming… making a Huge Embarrassing Scene in from of the Entire Neighborhood… and started attacking you. Yes, it was wrong for you to Show Any Anger at all. What you Should have Shown Her was what you look like from behind walking out the door with two suitcases and a steamer trunk! Or, if it is Your House or Apartment, you should have quietly suggested that she should begin packing ‘right now’ because you believe the Taxi will be there to pick her up within a half hour, and that you wish her all the Luck in the World in her future endeavors… particularly in finding any man she could be the least bit attracted to who Doesn’t enjoy a beer or two after a hard day’s Work while watching the sun set and feeling the first coolness of the Evening on one’s face.

You need to think about that If you stay with this Girlfriend, well, what kind of Future would That Be for you? What if she Learns that she can consistently get away with harping, nagging and hitting you? How could any Man still Be a Man and put up with that kind of ‘Whipping’? You know there is difference between a healthy Sex Life and just being ‘screwed over’.

Now, yes, most people would say I am far too abrupt, and should give such Girlfriends a Second Chance. Okay, let’s look at that. Yes, on your part, for your own Anger, You are indeed Taking Responsibility for yourself. We can definitely pursue your own Anger Management Goals completely and thoroughly… that is what we are here for. But as I see it Now, at this Present Moment, your LARGER Problem is with the Girl. She MUST Actively Seek Help Too, or One of You must find New Quarters.

Anyway, let me know what you think…

Thanks Leo. You have good points. The house is both ours. We are buying it and its almost paid off.

Again, we talked and all is ok. I know she needs help too but as Im doing for myself, she needs to for herself. I can only be responsible for my side of things.

If however I am to get hit again which I'm pretty sure she knows now not to do, I will leave regardless of the home purchasing issue. Owning a house does me no good if I'm incarcirated.

Dear Random,

Good Points! Yes, of course, Life is Always more Complex than my first Simplistic Recommendations… for instance, that your Relationship with your ‘girlfriend’ is a long standing one, and you each have significant Equity in a House that you both bought jointly, which is to say, you each have a Huge Investment in Each Other. In that kind of a Situation there can be no Quick and Easy Split Up or simply walking out … not without walking out on what must be your Life Savings.
But, if you can’t Walk Out, and thing DO get worse, well it may be possible to Isolate Yourself within the House. You two could simply set up Two Households under One Roof. Many Marriages nowadays work in just that Way – the “Loving Couple” stays out of each other’s Way.

Oh, yes, and you really should protect yourself against any Possible Lawsuit. It may be in your Girlfriend’s Interest to provoke you into striking her so that she can call the police and have you incarcerated Over Night for Domestic Violence. Usually these Domestic Violence Complaints never go to Court, as they are too expensive to Prosecute for too Little Good it does the District Attorney, BUT such Domestic Violence Complaints DO go on record and can be used as Evidence against you later on. SO, it is absolutely essential that you Never Even Get Near Her when she is Screaming and Yelling. You must Stay absolutely Quiet. You Must Leave the House and stand out in the Front Yard, or even all the way out in the Street, hoping that there will be Witnesses in the Neighborhood that will Back Up Your Story. And realize that the Police, while they KNOW that Everybody Lies (Cops just assume that nobody ever tells the Truth), still the Only Thing they can write in their Reports is what People tell them. SO, you can’t be ALONE with her when she is Like That – that would make it ‘your word against hers’, AND in the great majority of such cases the Cops pick out the Man to be the one who spends the Night in Jail. The Only Way to Save Yourself is to have witnesses out on the Street telling the Cops that you were ‘standing there quiet and helpless’ while the women was ‘going crazy’, ‘yelling and screaming”, “punching, kicking, slapping and biting” or whatever.

If you DON’T handle the Next Time absolutely correctly and you ARE the one that gets carted off. Well, its Over! She Won! Don’t wait for any final Battle. The Courts and the Cops tend to side with the Women. It just seems that in Everybody’s Mind that Domestic Violence MEANS Men Attacking Women – the Man is ALWAYS Assumed to be the Guilty Party.

I may be pessimistic but I would suspect that you are Already Screwed. Your Girlfriend is simply Maneuvering now and establishing her Position. I would guess that she wants the house for herself and is provoking you in order to get you desperate enough to Sell Out Cheap. Maybe you should let her Win. Ask her what it would take to buy her out, and tell her what you would take for her to Buy You Out. It think that is where it is all going. Save yourself Time and the hassle of spending a Weekend in Jail (oh, Girlfriends always pick Friday Nights to pick their Fights, because all the Legal Staffs take the Weekend Off, and Nobody ever gets released on a Saturday or Sunday. If you are unsure of yourself and the ‘girlfriend’, maybe you should pretend to be ‘called away for business’ every weekend, until you are sure the woman is not just trying to ‘set you up for the kill’.

Oh, I hope you don’t have any Joint Bank Accounts. Back in the 20th Century married couples would have Joint Accounts, and so there came to be a ‘trick’ where an extremely angry Wife would Suddenly Calm down and put on a Loving and Re-assuring Smile and Make Peace and Forgive All… and the next Day she would clean out the Joint Bank Account. The Men learned from the Women to do the same thing (though Men are seriously less cunning than Women)… so nowadays most couples ‘find it convenient’ to have separate accounts.

Well, I apologize for not furthering along any purely ‘Anger Management’ kind of discussion. I promise that I DO know something of Anger Management and I sincerely promise to start telling you about it. But, now I am just worried for you, and of course it is very likely I am overstating everything and really have no clue as to how things Really Are between you and your girlfriend. But, you both seem prone to Anger, and All that I Described Above is just the Kind of Typical Stuff that Happens to Couples where each party is ‘Prone to Anger’.

Oh, by the way, we recently had a Poster on the Page here that was a Very Angry Person, but came to us Seeking Support for her Angry Justifications – that is, that While she acknowledged that Anger is a Bad Thing in general, and that while Everyone Else should avoid Anger, in her own Case Her Own Anger was Entirely Warranted and Justified by the Horrible Situations she has been in. So that makes me wonder if your Girlfriend Realizes that her Anger was Wrong? Or does she think that she had “Justification” for shouting at you and slapping at you? If she Thinks she had Valid Cause for what she did to You, well, YOU NEED TO LEAVE before it all gets worse. The Worst Angry People are the Ones who Believe in their Anger. If She Thinks that She was Right, then that makes her far too dangerous to continue living with… in my opinion.

But I do hope that I am not offending you, if I am too far wrong. If I am way ‘off base’, please just tell me so… and we can pick this back up somewhere closer to the Truth of Things. Thanks for listening.

Hey random how about a regular outlet.. like MMA, wrestling, BJJ, kick-boxing...

or simply any strong physical exercise..

In my case my rage is mostly repressed under the surface but I need to feed the beast regularly..

mickey0212 wrote:Hey random how about a regular outlet.. like MMA, wrestling, BJJ, kick-boxing...

or simply any strong physical exercise..

In my case my rage is mostly repressed under the surface but I need to feed the beast regularly..

Dear Mickey,

Well, that is What a lot of Angry People Think... that they need a Good Taste of Hate and Violence once in a while. But don't you think that these People may simply be Indulging Themselves... such as the Way that Super Obese people say they need to Eat to keep their Strength Up, when there is really no danger at all that they might Waste away.

If the Truth actually matters to you, clinical studies show that dipping into violence and mock anger -- even just 'pretending' to Yell and Scream, Kick and Punch, well it all Serves as Rehearsal for the Real Thing. any Anger or Violence, even just the Blow Off Steam kind, where the person thinks it is isolated, safe and controlled, actually just Keeps the Anger and the Hostility ALIVE.

It can be compared to Smoking Cigarettes. To Quit, you have to Quit. You can argue that "If I just have One, then I won't want to chain smoke 4 whole packs"... but we know where that Logic Leads.

anyway, Mickey, if you have come to the Anger Management Page to give Advice on Anger Management, well, try to get On Board, Okay? Maybe you should read a few books. Did you know that University Bookstores are open to the Public... anybody can go in and buy a College Textbook. So you can Read Books and sort of have a close Certainty that you aren't just reading Popular 'Snake Oil' Garbage. But, nowadays, all the On Line Book Stores have Reviews and you can get a pretty good idea about whether the book you buy are actually written by serious trained Professionals. So, please, since you are Here at the Anger Management Page, maybe you should consider becoming interested in Anger Management... on a serious level.

Hi Leo,

Thanks for your - somewhat condescending - message.

There's a lot of books written by a lot of people some with agendas, some with true intentions.. some with more knowledge than others..

I don't claim to be an expert in the literature but am only sharing what has worked for me which I believe is in the spirit of a forum like this.. More so I'd say than putting new comers down in any way..

Maybe.. just maybe.. you should find out what some of these martial arts training environments are like.. there can be a lot of cammaraderie and support and acceptance of our natural violent tendencies which I believe is healthy.

Coming from someone with a lot of repressed rage, it helped me a lot.. But then this may be different for someone who hasn't had their rage repressed that much..

All in all I don't think anyone has a right answer and we all find our own path...

As to yourself.. I felt your anger directed at me and maybe you're not as self-aware or wise as you think you are..

Maybe going for a jog to let off some steam would do you good

mickey0212 wrote:Hi Leo,

Thanks for your - somewhat condescending - message.

There's a lot of books written by a lot of people some with agendas, some with true intentions.. some with more knowledge than others..

I don't claim to be an expert in the literature but am only sharing what has worked for me which I believe is in the spirit of a forum like this.. More so I'd say than putting new comers down in any way..

Maybe.. just maybe.. you should find out what some of these martial arts training environments are like.. there can be a lot of cammaraderie and support and acceptance of our natural violent tendencies which I believe is healthy.

Coming from someone with a lot of repressed rage, it helped me a lot.. But then this may be different for someone who hasn't had their rage repressed that much..

All in all I don't think anyone has a right answer and we all find our own path...

As to yourself.. I felt your anger directed at me and maybe you're not as self-aware or wise as you think you are..

Maybe going for a jog to let off some steam would do you good

Dear Mickey,

Could you please look at your own reply to me and count up the jabs -- you say I am condescending. Now how does insulting me so openly help our friendship along? Next, you take my having a Difference with you, and expressing it as "Anger". really!? Do you honestly think I was Angry, or did you just suppose that on This Page, that calling somebody "Angry" would be the most effective and easiest Slight? I suppose you would say that your Civility may be have been slipping because it has been too long since the last time you slapped somebody around in a Fung Fu Class.

But let us return to Your Argument which is basically that Encouraging your Violence in more or less Controlled Conditions is a Good Thing. I won't repeat my arguments, as they seemed very good and sound arguments to me, and you have made no effort at all to address them. I suppose it is easier to maintain your Equilibrium with your Personal Status Quo if you simply Ignore all Warnings... you may believe that so far your Thinking has not Killed you and you are willing to Hope that your Luck holds.

Also, you speak of "Repressed Rage" as though it is a Bad Thing. but, think about it... to 'Repress' ANY Vice or Harmful or Dangerous Inclination is a GOOD THING, isn't it? The Trick to Successful Social Living is to Express the Good and Repress the Bad. yes, it seems you are operating from assumptions asserted over a hundred years ago by the most primitively Early Psychologists who were more Influenced by European Romanticism than by any substantial Scientific Studies or actual Quantified Data. Quite frankly, the Early Father's of Psychology were not that far removed from Snake Oil Salesman, but their Legacy of misconceptions seems to linger on, with certain people Still supposing it all tantamount to Gospel Truth. this is another reason to apply yourself to some reliable and current reading. Am I being Condescending? Well, is there any Teacher or Instructor who can do his job without going into it with the assumption that he knows more than the person he is instructing. But it is terribly impolite to call anybody Condescending to their face, isn't it? It might not be an "Anger" issue, but it IS a matter of Common Courtesy and Acceptable Social Behavior. Also, you might know this already, but one of the Primary Triggers for Angry Behavior is being Confronted by Rudeness and Deliberate Disrespect... such as being accused of being Condescending... But I suppose you won't admit that you were trying to actually Start a Fight here on the Anger Management Page. I suppose you would say that if only I would Study the Martial Arts I would be more able to take Insults and Slights in my stride.

and about just What Anger is. Disagreeing with a person and presenting Arguments, even to the point of 'taking apart' the other person's assertions, well, that is all just Part and Parcel of Scholastic Discourse. I don't know where you finished School, but in the Universities, especially the Philosophy and Psychology Departments, there are not any Two Professors who Agree totally upon Anything, and Discussion always take the form of Presenting their own Opinion as the correct one, offering logical or factual support, and then going on to 'De-Construct' the 'Other Guy's' Argument. and NOBODY calls THAT "Anger". It is Simply How Intellectualism is Carried Forward. BUT! and this is a Serious BUT -- the Primary Problem that often creeps into Scholarly Discussions, is that One of the Parties CLEARLY demonstrates His Point and Plainly Picks Apart the Other Guy's, and the Other Guy FAILS to acknowledge It. That is Just Bad Form! A Gentleman and Scholar ALWAYS knows when He has been Bested and has the Good Sense to Acknowledge It and Back Off. Now, of course, the Fellow who gets 'Bested' is often expected to be momentarily confused or taken somewhat aback, just as a Losing Chess Player often lingers a bit over the board while staring at an inevitable Check Mate. In such a Case, it is often the Accepted Form to say something in the order of "Very good points and well worth thinking about. I am so glad we had this Discussion. Please, let me get back to you later... " which is not a Positive Admission of Defeat (as the person probably Really has to Think about what Just Happened and sort it through to the Obvious Conclusions, which may take a while... 'Denial' exists in Academia as well as Psychology, you know). BUT Nobody in a Scholastic Setting would Dream of insisting that He chooses to Stick with his Own obviously spurious Argument because 'He Likes the Way it makes him Feel'.... "In my Experience, I simply Prefer the Way I think"... or what you said "All in all I don't think anyone has a right answer and we all find our own path..". ... and yet you are giving Advice to New Posters here telling them to Encourage their Violence because they will find it Gads of Fun just like You
Do... and THAT IS essentially your Argument, isn't it?

when I conclude my Posts I usually ask people about what they think of what I said, but that is only If I believe they are listening to me. But apparently you are too busy 'finding YOUR OWN path" to give a serious hearing to anybody else.

Well. I used my better judgement and left. Screw it all. It's not worth my freedom and or life. Thanks for the insight guys.

Mr-Random wrote:Well. I used my better judgement and left. Screw it all. It's not worth my freedom and or life. Thanks for the insight guys.

Dear Random,

I believe that was a Good Decision, as I’ve been in similar situations with women myself – sometimes if a Relationship is going downhill sharply, and you KNOW that the Other Person has a Long Memory for Grudges, or would forever be Suspicious of you, or would even be a little bit Afraid of you, thus effectively destroying any Real Intimacy, well, as they say, “The Well has been Poisoned”, and it would be irrational to think you could keep drinking from it. And It is Best to Bail Out of the Plane before it Hits the Ground.

BUT! Don’t Go Away Yet! I hope you will Stay with us. After all, though I give Splendid Advise for Always Avoiding Relationships (most people get Angry from within Relationships; therefore the Problem is in establishing Relationships, isn’t it?... at a very simple level, that is.), but MOST Young to Middle Aged People feel that Being in a Relationship is a Good and Desirable Thing or that it is somehow Inevitable and can’t be avoided, or at least that getting into Relationships is what Society Expects of everyone. So, while it will take Some Time to ‘wind down’ from this last relationship, it may be likely that you will sometime in the Future get involved in a New Relationship. AND for that Relationship to Work… if you really Want it to Work… you should do all the Necessary Adjustments on your Personality and Behavioral Patterns NOW.

Realistically speaking, to significantly address even a moderately serious Anger Problem, it takes a few Years. There is A Lot that you first need to Know, so that means there will be A Lot to Learn – books to read, videos to watch, etc, and then you have to Practice, Practice, Practice all of that – Failing here and there, but always Getting Back in the Saddle.

So, Please! Stay with us. It would be wonderful to work with you and mark your progress. You could be one of the Page’s Proud Success Stories. And, you might not believe it now, BUT Anger Management makes a Great Hobby!

Have you considered not drinking alcohol?

JuliusFawcett wrote:Have you considered not drinking alcohol?

Hi Julius,

Yes, if one quits drinking Alcohol, then SO MUCH Possibility for getting into trouble is eliminated on the spot.

And, yes, I have been a moderate drinker most of my life, but found it wise to Lay Off It a few times. Once, a great many Decades ago, I was in a scuffle which took me to Court, and my manners so impressed the Judge that he ruled that if I could just keep out of trouble for one whole year, my Criminal Record would be expunged. So, even then as a young man, I knew to do two things: 1) Not to even Go Into a Bar or a Club, as the People there are unpredictable, and the Trouble of others might spill over onto one's self, and 2) to quit drinking. And the strategy worked. But I later joined the Nation's Armed Forces and so started to have a beer upon occasions. I was mostly able to stay out of Trouble there, but, as you can guess, the Military is far more tolerant of drunken and rowdy trouble than the Greater Society, especially since the Majority of the Officers and Non-Commissioned Officers are virtual alcoholics, and since they are the ones who Recommend Promotions and Do the Promoting, they protect their 'Drunken Club' by effectively Black-Balling anybody who Doesn't Drink. And I believe it is the same for almost Any Modern Country's Military -- everywhere in the World the Drunks had 'Circled their Wagons' to defend themselves, and then gone on the Offensive to effectively Take Over their Nation's Armed Forces. I believe there should be some kind of Civilian Oversight, such as 'planting undercover Civilian' investigators into the Military Ranks, so that they can see what is happening and report on it. It should bother us all that so many Drunks have in their Hands so much Destructive Power... not to mention that these Drunken Generals are advising our Politicians and Government Leaders, and they are Listened to with Respect and often with Admiration, but what kind of Wisdom as to War or Peace can we expect from Drunks!? Anyway, I never Drank enough to really Succeed in my Military Career, and so I got Out.

but then I became quite a serious amateur Musician, and Those Guys Drink! So I was drinking, though only moderately. But recently problems with my hips required me to lose a lot of weight, which reduces stress on the Hips, which reduces the Pain. You see Alcohol is Very Fattening, and so I found that I could either Eat or Drink, and I chose Eating. Then I was almost Surprised to find that my Music Practices didn't really require Drinking, and in fact, the Quality of my Playing went on a Steady Upward Curve... and it still hasn't Leveled Out. Apparently the Skills one Attains in Practice 'stick better' if one practices Sober. Of course, there was One Drawback, which does account for why Musicians in General are Drinkers -- the Drinking does help with Endurance. When I was drinking, 3 and 4 hour practices were quite common. But it is difficult to play That Long sober. Professional Musicians who have to play set after set, well, the Drink they have between sets helps to Keep them Going.

And another thing I discovered... even when I was Just Drinking during Music Practice, well, there was always the residual Tipsiness After Music Practice, which was effectively Wasted Time -- one was Too Dull to do anything that was very important or required much precision or judgmental discretion. One could watch TV and that is about it. So, by Not Drinking, you lengthen the Useful and Productive Hours you have each day.

And, yes, Julius, one can better Rely on one's Good Judgment if one is Sober. I suppose I could have mentioned it myself, to the New Posters, but I seem to be more focused on Other Factors, BUT, I must concede to you the Point that it may indeed be Very Likely that your Suggestion to quit Drinking could be All the Anger Management the New Poster needs. I am glad you Jumped In with It!

I myself had probably not as far as a drinking problem in my early 20's, however I was not far short of one.

I gave up drinking 7 years ago whilst in heavy training for the London Marathon, I haven't touched a drop since. There are many other more healthy ways to relax. It does take some effort to learn how to socialise whilst sober, and I think that effort was well worth it for me, although not for everyone.