How to manage an ED with DBT??? Help!

Stella,

Wow, I do understand what you are going through. I have experienced the same ungodly lows.

The internal suffering can be so profound, so deep, I can't remember what it was like to feel well

I could have written this myself just a few months ago. I guess the only thing I can add here is that I am 100000% better, so there is hope for you. I wish I had the answers, though.

Since it seems you are not doing better on either Lamictal or Prozac, have you considered coming off both? Without the Lamictal, you probably wouldn't need the Prozac. I have to say that since I have gotten off Lamictal, I have felt a lot better.

Debbi

Have you tried EFT? I have heard a lot of positive things about it. It seems to work when many things have not, and has been very successful with depression and eating disorders. The site is emofree dot com. For some reason I can't post links in my posts

Hi Debbi- I posted a reply but my session timed out and I lost it when i went to submit. It takes me so long to do anything when I'm like this. Very frustrating.

Thank you for the suggestion of EFT. I've never heard of this. I found the emofree site. I also found this site: http://www.alternativedepressiontherapy.com/EFT-for-Depression.html
I'm particularly interested in this statement:

With EFT it is no longer necessary to suffer through months of emotionally painful weekly therapy, or to tell your traumatic story over and over again, searching for meaning. It's no longer necessary to muster the motivation to do cognitive-behavioral assignments between sessions.

Unfortunately it lists reasons EFT would not work- and I fit many of them to a T. I'll ask my pdoc about it. She's always open to helping me find access to alternative treatments. She found a DBT group for me and pestered me to try it until I finally agreed!

I'd be hard pressed to get her to agree to d/c the Lamictal. It's taken a year to find a drug that even remotely touches the depression. I do take heed of your experience. I'm glad you found you were so much better off it.

Thanks for understanding my situation so thoroughly. I know Karen identifies, too. It always helps a little knowing I'm not alone with it.

Hi Stella

stella_blues wrote:The increase in the eating disorder has complicated an already impossible-to-treat condition.

Who knows. This is why I feel so helpless and hopeless. It's like having a terrible disease for which there is no cure. The internal suffering can be so profound, so deep, I can't remember what it was like to feel well. It's so isolating - so utterly painful- so disabling- I wouldn't let a dog live this way. I'd put it out of it's misery.

This is exactly where I am at the moment too. The bingeing and bulimic cycle has driven me right to the very edge of despair and keeps me there, and my past negative experiences of 'treatment' at the hands of doctors and psychiatrists means I am not willing to subject myself to more of their mistreatment, lies or manipulation either.

I too feel like if an animal were suffering the way I am someone would do the decent thing and put the animal out of its suffering. We don't treat animals this way but people expect other people to suffer extreme distress and despair and torment. I wake every day wishing to be put out of my suffering.

It must be difficult dealing with medication problem and I doubt there is an easy answer. I can see why you don't want to stop the Prozac, as I wouldn't either, but if your mood was more stabile without it then maybe you could discuss with your pdoc any other possibilities.

I can sense the desperation in your posts and considering ECT might be something you think is worth the risk. At the end of the day it is up to you. I can only say personally I would rather risk facing suicidal thoughts and compulsions daily than subject myself to such treatment, but if you want to go ahead we will be here to support you.

I hope today has been ok for you.

Karen

Hi Stella,

I have had that happen before with my posts, it's incredibly frustrating. Now before I send them I copy and put them on a blank email or on Notepad just in case they are lost.

I have known about EFT for almost 4 years and just came across it last night again, so perhaps it will help you. It's definitely worth looking into. You can search for a practitioner in your area. I'd be interested in hearing what your pdoc says.

Karen, this method could also benefit you. I found a practitioner in your area who has a free 20 minute consultation. The site is emoshift dot com. Perhaps this is something to consider. On emofree dot com's homepage there are links to a lot of testimonials of the benefit of this method for depression and eating disorders.

I feel kind of helpless here because I wish there was something more I could do. I have been where you are and now I am not. But I don't know how to get both of you where I am If anything, I am glad that at least discussing your feelings seems to be helping.

Debbi

Hi Debbi

Thanks for the information about EFT. I have actually tried it in the past but it didn't work for me I am a lost cause I think.

I have been where you are and now I am not. But I don't know how to get both of you where I am

I don't know either. I think it is impossible for me. I have accepted it won't ever happen and I'll probably go through with my plans sooner rather than later.

Feeling very upset today as I've just upset the person I care about most in the world and all because I am suicidal

Karen

briary wrote:Hi Debbi

I am a lost cause I think. ...

Feeling very upset today as I've just upset the person I care about most in the world and all because I am suicidal

Karen

Aw, Karen. I just want to give you a big, warm hug.
You're hurting so much- it pours out of your posts.

I know how scary it is to feel like you've upset/hurt the person you're attached to. It's such a sinking feeling of awful dread. Just keep in mind that suicidality is scary and frustrating to face in someone you care about. I'm sure your friend is just very concerned - not knowing how to help. That can be difficult for someone- but it's only difficult b/c they care so much about you and don't want to lose you. It might help if you put yourself in their shoes and think about it that way. Then you'll see they still love and care about you, know you're in a desperate situation, they just feel frustrated and afraid. It might sound counter-intuitive, but allow your friend these negative feelings and you might feel some relief. Offering them permission to have their own experience will feel giving and kind on your part, and will lend a more realistic perspective. I hope this makes some sense.

I know how these things are easier said than done. I'm severely attached to my pdoc and I go over in mind - over and over- everything I said in the last session. Any small indiscretion on my part- even just smallest comment- that seemed even remotely hurtful or disrespectful (even if they're really nothing) is SO hugely worrying and cause for self hatred and punishment. At the same time, I don't want her to know how worried I get that she'll abandon me so I play it cool all the time. Which is bad b/c I need to be able to lean on her for support and help.

I just feel SO attached to her it's paralyzing to think she would be angry or feel hurt by me! Absolutely hands down Terrifying!

Hi Debbi- Thanks again. I'm meeting wtih my pdoc and her superior this Wed and will ask about it.

___________


Heading out to see my individual DBT therapist this morning. (As long as the roads are okay- it snowed again last night.) I haven't clicked with her, yet. And this will be my sixth or seventh session with her. I don't trust her- and I don't want to become attached. Plus I feel much worse after every session, so I'm starting to dread them. Nothing new- it's always been this way with me and therapy.

Hi Stella

Thanks for your kind reply. I identify with everything you say about your feelings of attachment to you pdoc. I feel the same about my friend. She is my life, the only fragile cord holding me to life. Without her I am lost.

I am hurting so much and it's hard when feeling this much pain to not tell the person who means the most in the world to me, but I do constantly worry that I am hurting her and causing her pain, and I feel like the most evil and bad person in the world for doing that to her. I realise she is probably worried about me and it probably causes her distress to read how much I am hurting. Despite all that she has stood by me throughout - but sometimes in my desperation I cross the line and I feel like the worst person on the planet when she reminds me of that

I know how these things are easier said than done. I'm severely attached to my pdoc and I go over in mind - over and over- everything I said in the last session. Any small indiscretion on my part- even just smallest comment- that seemed even remotely hurtful or disrespectful (even if they're really nothing) is SO hugely worrying and cause for self hatred and punishment

Yes, I get that completely. I do the same and have these fears that one day I will do something so terrible she will leave me and it will all be my fault. I've already caused huge strain in another friendship to someone I had a kind of secondary attachment to and things are messed up there forever now. I've ruined it and I'll beat myself up and punish myself forever because of it.

At the same time, I don't want her to know how worried I get that she'll abandon me so I play it cool all the time. Which is bad b/c I need to be able to lean on her for support and help.

It is the fear of being abandoned, especially if the other person realises how much you need them. I've been through this with the person I have feelings for, but for a long time now she's been fully aware of how much I rely on her and how strong my attachment is. In some ways it is hard because it means she feels the need to put up certain boundaries, but even before I spoke openly to her about it she had already guessed that I was attached. It was a relief when I knew I no longer needed to hide it.

I just feel SO attached to her it's paralyzing to think she would be angry or feel hurt by me! Absolutely hands down Terrifying!

Yes me too. This person is my world and I wouldn't still be here without her. I can't even describe how deep my feelings for her are and couldn't contemplate living without her.

I hope your DBT session goes ok. It is hard when you don't 'click' with the therapist but with attachment issues there is the added worry of becoming too dependent if you do click. It is a difficult one. What leaves you feeling worse at the end of the session? Is it something you could talk to her about and perhaps do something to change?

Karen

And because of all this upset, and upset with someone else I binged by breakfast this morning

There is no hope of breaking this cycle.

Karen

Karen I wish we lived near to each other. I think we could be good support for the other- we're both in such similar situations. And it's interesting how you can be so supportive and helpful of me, and yet not be able to apply it to your own situation. And I feel storng for you, and can see hope in your situation, but I can't apply the same to mine. Do you see what I mean?

Cling to hope. Even if you don't believe it exists right now. It's there. Like the day is dark when the clouds are thick, the sun is still there- it's just shrouded. But tomorrow or the next day the clouds WILL break. You have to hang on to that thought.

Again, I know how feeble and worthless that all sounds. I really do. Nothing makes sense when one is in this state of mind.

I really don't know for how long I'll keep pushing through this mire, either. The past few days my Plan has been on my mind almost constantly. I literally wake up and it's my first thought. It's become intrustive and compulsive. The ONLY thing that quiets my mind is eating something. Which I then have to purge. Which I dread and hate. And so the cycle goes, as you know so well.

But some little shard of hope is anchoring me to this life. I don't know what- but here I am. Maybe it's knowing that there are others, like you, who undertand the very same deep to-the-core suffering, but they're hanging in. Somehow, someway, they're hanging in. So maybe I can, too. Just another day.

Hi Stella

Yes, it is a shame we live so far away since we are going through almost identical experiences and can empathise with each others feelings and desperation.

Funnily enough, I don't feel at all strong but I do sense strength in you. You seem to have a strong will and determination to find a way to fight and hang on in this life, whereas I would be quite happy to give up and let death take hold of me. I think that is the major difference between us.

stella_blues wrote:I really don't know for how long I'll keep pushing through this mire, either. The past few days my Plan has been on my mind almost constantly. I literally wake up and it's my first thought. It's become intrustive and compulsive. The ONLY thing that quiets my mind is eating something. Which I then have to purge. Which I dread and hate. And so the cycle goes, as you know so well.

Sadly I do, and I wish I could give you an answer for how to make it stop, but I am struggling with this also, not so much the purging, but the bingeing, depression and suicidal cycle. I am not doing too well right now.

But some little shard of hope is anchoring me to this life. I don't know what- but here I am. Maybe it's knowing that there are others, like you, who undertand the very same deep to-the-core suffering, but they're hanging in. Somehow, someway, they're hanging in. So maybe I can, too. Just another day.

I am glad you are hanging in and that sharing your experiences is helping. How are things today?

Karen

Ah, Karen- good to see you here. I do worry about you. I wish there was a magic wand to wave to make it all better. For us both.

Yeah, I guess I'm strong. Definitely willful, you're right on that point. I have a bit of a mule in my blood I think.

But I lack a will to keep doing this. I'm ready to cut it all loose. And I don't see it as much a lack of strength as just being convinced that my life will just keep being this way if I choose to keep living. I don't see that as weak- just a simple string of logic.

I'm ready to be done. In DBT class, this evening, I sat there as an observer. I could see everyone interacting as though looking into a store window. I could see plainly that it will all be the same when I'm gone. That nothing will change. That was a surprising comfort, a relief. All this time I've carried this great weight of responsibility for everyone's happiness - that my dying would change the world, destroy lives. Sure, there will be a small ripple of grief and loss in my small circle, but in the end, everything will smooth out- quite quickly, in fact- and things will continue on as they were. It's dawned on me- I don't have to keep doing this for anyone, anymore. I can't over-think it. Yes, my partner will be hurt for a long time, but she's tough, and a survivor, and she has people around her for support. She'll recover with time. Life hurts. I can't protect her from it.

I really hope this isn't triggering for you, my talking so candidly this way. I guess I've just gotten used to sharing so openly. You've been one person whom I've been able to say pretty much anything.

Tomorrow at noon I'm meeing with my pdoc and her superior. I don't expect anything to come of the meeting. I haven't dared tell anyone this, but I'm moving forward with my Plan after the meeting. It's time. Unless there's some great epiphony or break through treatment suggestion, which I know there won't be. There's really nothing left to try.

And that's okay. Hey. It is what it is. I'm not upset or sad. I actually feel light and relieved. I feel like this is the first decision I've made just FOR ME. All this time I've been struggling to "get better" for everyone around me. But this decision is for me, 100%. I feel calm- no longer like a caged animal.

I haven't mentioned this to anyone for a couple of reasons. One is I don't want any intervention, obviously. But two, talking about it feels a little like a jynx- like if I say it outloud, it won't happen. Kind of like complimenting your car- and the next day it breaks down on the highway.

Hang in there, girlfriend. Hugs.

P.S. Feel free to remove this post if it's too triggering. It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. And I appologize, if so.

Hi Stella

Now is my turn to worry about you, but at the same time I identify exactly with where you are right now.

The only difference for me is that I haven't found the 'peace' you talk about with knowing that the people I care about will eventually be alright and move on without me, although I do actually believe life will move on as if I had never been here. I still can't help feeling incredibly guilty about the hurt and pain I will cause by doing what I know to be right for myself and therefore I feel bad and selfish about it.

stella_blues wrote:I really hope this isn't triggering for you, my talking so candidly this way. I guess I've just gotten used to sharing so openly. You've been one person whom I've been able to say pretty much anything.

No, you are not triggering me and I feel honoured that you feel so comfortable that you feel able to talk to me about this, but perhaps her isn't the place, not if you want to talk about details or actually going through with what you are about to do. I am very willing to listen and you are welcome to email me, you can find my email address on my profile. I don't want others to get upset by this.

Tomorrow at noon I'm meeing with my pdoc and her superior. I don't expect anything to come of the meeting. I haven't dared tell anyone this, but I'm moving forward with my Plan after the meeting. It's time. Unless there's some great epiphony or break through treatment suggestion, which I know there won't be. There's really nothing left to try.

I know I don't have to say to give this a lot of thought because being there myself I know you already have. Just think it through some more and make sure this is really what you want. This really is a final solution and there is no coming back from it. I can't tell you what to do, or whether life can improve or not because I don't want to be a hipocrite, but others do get better, I just haven't been one who has found a way to do that.

And that's okay. Hey. It is what it is. I'm not upset or sad. I actually feel light and relieved. I feel like this is the first decision I've made just FOR ME. All this time I've been struggling to "get better" for everyone around me. But this decision is for me, 100%. I feel calm- no longer like a caged animal.

I've felt that before too. It's the relief of knowing the pain and distress will end, but suicide doesn't always go as planned either - I should know. Please get in touch with me before you decide.

Karen

Hi Stella,

Please check your private messages, I have sent you one.

Blessings,
Debbi

I'm sedated ot the nines- just wnated to check in wth you gals.
They held me at the clinic into the night- didn't know what to do with me. Couldn't involuntary me to the hosptial b/c my pdoc know it makes me worse and they tweak my meds without considering my sensitivity to them- which also makes me worse. Although she said if she didn't know me, she would've blue papered me right off the bat. They kept me there and finally released me to my partner and I'm under crisis clinic watch.

There is nothing. "The last ditch effort" ECT is setting up for next week. And d/c'ing Lamictal and Prozac to start an MAOI drug treament. *strug* Who the f cares. Im just so bottom of my soul sad to be here- I failed. What could be more pathetic. I haven't given up the ghost- it's just inevitable. One of the dr. who spoke with me- one of the new ones to me, supposedly to offer "fresh eyes" on the situation- even said he believes it's inevitable I'll die by my own hand.

What kind of life is being watched and sedated?

At least my pdoc, who's stood by me for over year, was validated in that her superior and the other doc who evaluated me both agreed I was a complicated, dificult case and have no real idea what direction to go.

My head is in a cloud of sedation. So signing off. Sorry to worry you. The last thing I want to do is hurt people around me.