My Partners Depression

Hi Bex,
Many thanks for taking the trouble to write to me. Sorry for the delay in my responding.
Initially, I must say that I was shocked by what you had written about my relationship being an abusive one and my partners problem being abusiveness as well as depression. I had never thought of it quite like that – never realised it, I must admit. I have looked at the site that you gave me the link of and yes, there are many similiarities there.
The relationship is an emotional rollercoaster and yes, he does try and control me. ‘Abusive people are stuck in fear, though this is not obvious. They don't trust themselves and are terrified of their lack of control. They don't know what they may do! They are looking for their partner to impose boundaries on them - so they may feel safer. Partners who impose few limits are regarded with increasing contempt.’
This is so true! The harder and nastier I am to him, the better behaved he is!
I am looking for a way to try and bring this relationship to some sort of conclusion now. It aint easy especially when I have loved this man so much and so deeply and I suppose that I continue to do so…
Thanks again.
Mel

Hi Polly,
Its been a while since you wrote on the site and on this thread and I have surely missed you. Sorry for my delay in replying.
Thanks for your sound advice. As usual you give warm advice and are so helpful.
Yes, my relationship with my partner is different to yours and his behaviour is quite different too. My partner is spiteful, can be VERY spiteful but as yet he has not gone that far. What an awful time you must have had with that man.
As I wrote above, the harder I am with him, the better he behaves towards me. I have felt a coldness towards him in the last weeks. I am angry, I suppose – very angry because the way I see it, he is wrecking something beautiful and happy and something that could last us well into the rest of our lives. In these weeks, I have seen him reach out to me and instead of accepting his warmth with gratefulness as before, I have turned away from him. I have seen how hard it was for him to cope with this New Mel.
He has also wanted to continue having a physical relationship with me whilst showing no warmth at other times or even during this act. I agreed before I felt this coldness because I could see the warm person underneath during the act and because I believed that he needed to be able to reach out and feel my love for him.
Last week, I told him that Id prefer him not to touch me in bed if this was the way he was behaving. At first he said, ‘We had better stop then’. I said, ‘Its your choice – if you show me no warmth Id prefer not to have a physical relationship with you’. Believe it or not, he has now become warmer again!
Polly, you think that I should keep trying. My instincts tell me the same but I am becoming tired of this way of life now. If you were my partner, would that be what you want? Do you think he is testing me to see how far he can push me? I continue to feel that this man cares deeply for me. Isnt it strange?
Warm regards
Mel

Dear Mel,

I have learned that abuse comes in many different looking and sounding packages. Sometimes it is very difficult to spot it.

I used invisibility in my childhood for survival. Our family displayed the stereotypical: The over-achiever was my older sister took care of meals and laundry and house-cleaning and watching the smaller children as young as eight years of age. She exceeded in everything in school. Was voted most likely to succeed as well as being home-coming queen in high school. My older brother was the clown. All his life he dealt with any kind of problem with a joke or acting silly. I was the third in line and the invisible one. I hid physically much of the time and tried my best not to be seen or heard.

With that in mind then, you can see how I might be the victim in later realtionships. But there are never victims without volunteers. I am just now realizing how demeaning and demoralizing the man I rented a room from for four years was toward me. I was grateful for the stable home-life at the beginning. I lived there longer than I had lived any where except the ten years in the house of my birth before my parents divorced.

I was aware of things he said that I did not like, but I always kept my mouth shut. Had I calmly corrected him or told him how I felt at the time of each offense, perhaps I might still be living there. But as time went on, the offenses got worse and I grew more - what? - tired? judged? inferior? angry and isolated even though I was in a house with other people.

I have been living alone now for over a year and it has been only in the past month that I realized how I allowed this to happen. I hope I can recognize the signals sooner and deal with them assertively in the future. "Assertive" means maintaining the dignity of both me and the other person. I recently read a cute book: "Tounge Fu" I do not remember the author. The book was loaned to me by my doctor. It gives several ways of saying things in a loving, more positive way to get the result you want without alienating the person you are dealing with. It might be of help to you in setting the boundaries for yourself with your spouse. I am sure it would be helpful in rearing up children. She gave some glowing examples! And it is clever and easy to read and it is short! My kind of reading!

I wish you well.

Hi Mel. I feel for you as I unfortunately put my partner through a similar thing that your partner does. I don't any longer go to the same extreme as I am concious of how much it hurts him, but I will go really cold on him and go so deep into myself that it must be so difficult for him. My symptom is really a sudden overwhelming feeling of nothing is right and a desire to escape from everyone. This ruminates in my head for about 3-4 days where it becomes so extreme that I fall into a black depression and cannot speak or move properly. This means full breakdown of communication and affection with my partner. However once it hits the stage where I think that the 'end has come' (ie its got so bad I have considered extreme measures) then inner strength steps in and I go on a mission to get myself out of it. This includes searching the web for info (and finding this forum has been a relief!) or tyring relaxation, exercise, positive thinking. This works for some time, then I'll get a confidence kick in the teeth couple of weeks later and off we go again.

I am now seeking help (starting tomorrow) so will let you know of any results.

I fundamentally love my partner but unfortunately when a mood kicks in I blame him and want to escape him.

You are so right to stick by your partner as my partner sticks by me. If it wasn't for him I'd be a wreck. Your strength will be appreciated by your partmer even if he doesn't show it.

Cheers
W

Dear Wilson,
I cannot tell you the joy your post has brought me. You have described EXACTLY my situation and have made me feel less alone.
Last night, yet again, my partner told me how not only did he not love me and want me to leave the home that we share by the 30 June, he also did not even like me very much... I am sure that you can understand the painfulness and desperation of my situation. I am gutted...
Not sure whether I can stay with him any longer - this I think is the beginning of the end - and this man I love more than any other - perhaps even myself.
Id be really happy to know how you get on - the way you describe your feelings is exactly the way my partner behaves. What wouldnt I give to know how to change the way he is, back into the wonderful man that sometimes peeps out atme.
Thanks again.
Mel

gosh, that sounds horrific. i'll let you know any tips i get tomorrow and following sessions. What a situation we find ourselves in! i do question why on earth this is happening.... i'm glad you feel less alone through my post. me too

W

Hi mel and Wilson

I sometimes think that one of the difficulties/challenges that comes in here is that we imagine that other people are consistent. I don't know where we get this idea from, because when you examine yourself you notice that sometimes you feel one thing, sometimes another, sometimes you think one thing, sometimes another - and the gap between them can be VAST! Then again, sometimes the way we are at that time may be considered to be positive, sometimes negative. Of course, we don't have any problem with positive manifestations, and we don't suggest to ourselves (or to others) that these manifestations should be changed. But we certainly DO suggest that negative manifestations should be changed. The problem is, that negative manifestation may be part of who we are, and if we say "change it", that can mean we do not accept who we (or the other person) are. And we have to start off from accepting ourselves and each other AS WE ARE - good and bad all mixed up. This is not the same thing as accepting behaviour which is harmful - it is about acknowledging the complexity of being a human. If we can accept this mix, we have more hope of dealing with the fallout of the negative aspects, without reading it as an aspersion on ourselves ("if I were a better person, I would have been able to change them/myself").

I hope I am making myself clear - this reads a little bit rambly!

Kathleen

It is so true. And we often think the three most precious words are "I LOVE YOU" when it fact the three most precious words are "I AM SORRY"

We all say and do things that later we ish we had not. Forgivness for ourselves when we slip and for others when they do us wrong is a DEVINE GIFT we can give ourselves.

I haven't read all the response to this forum (theres loads) but I think, from the carers point of view, this may help.

Depression doesn't necessarily make partners/loved ones think bad/aggresive thoughts, but the problem is this; when you are depressed, you have incorrect emotional reactions to people around you. For example, I remember when I started to become very depressed (this was about a year ago). My mum offered me a cup of tea while I was watching an episode of the West Wing. The reason I was watching this was that I found it intellectually stimulating, but emotionally uninvolving. In retrospect, although I didn't feel good when I was watching this series (and I watched the whole series), it gave me respite because I could do something to stimulate my physical senses (audio/visual senses) without having any emotional involvment (no thoughts or empathy withthe characters). I didn't feel happy, I didn't feel sad.... i just felt flat, and this was a relief compared to the times when I was alone with my thoughts. When my mum offered me a cup of tea it felt like It was being torn from my sanctuary... because you just want to say "I want to be left alone.." but as a depressive you perceive (perhaps wrongly.. but sometimes correctly) that this type of response will lead to more questions ("are you sure, can I get you anything?"), which will distract you further from your peaceful, empty yet acceptable state, and set your thoughts rolling again. Furthermore, every depressive person KNOWS that everyone around them is trying to help, and they feel terrible about hurting their feelings, but are not really in any state to be considerate. Carers should be aware that if their loved one wants a cup of tea etc, they will only want one if they think it will make them feel better. If they think it will make them feel better, they will get it themselves. Anyway... my mum offered me the tea and I went ballistic ("Just **** off, get the hell away from me..." I'm sure everyone in here knows how it is). And this brings me full circle back to my original point... the depressive person (if anyone knows a more PC term... please let me know) has emotional reactions which are out of context to what the carer says or does. If you transcribe this to a normal situation, it would be akin to watching TV, and have someone start a circular saw right next to you. Imagine how annoyed you would be.


This is the depressive perspective.... don't try to understand it, just accept it. Carers suffer morethan depressive patients sometimes. which is the real shame of this condition, but you have to have faith in the fact that we (as depressives) love you and appreciate you more than you could possibly imagine, but it is just physically impossible for us to express it untilwe recover. I don't think I could have recovered anywhere as near as quick from my depressions, without my brothers and parents. They put up with alot of terrible behaviour on my part and they made me aware of it... but only after I improved. If you can just tolerate everything until you see some signs of improvement and are able to hold a basic conversation together, then you can come to agreement on ground rules, and introduce a bit of structure back into our lives (a talk once a day - about anything).


I'll post my "10 minute strategy" for increasing physical activity tommorow as a new post.

Dave.

Hope this helps...

David, that was a terrific example of what happens. Back before I was aware that I had depression - I could not explain to those people I loved how simple little gestures they thought were loving - to me were horrible intrusions on my solitude. And solitude, quiet, contemplation, being with my thoughts was and still is very important to me. I need time alone to nuture myself. I came out and had fun with people, but only after I had that time to recharge my batteries. Ic ould not explain this to them and they kept trying to interrupt me, to bring me out - until I could not take it anymore and I would go balistic!

Thank you, David, for sharing this and articulating it so well.

pollyanna

Thatnks for the reply Pollyanna; its good to hear that that post was familiar to you. I would also say though that when you are depressed, being alone with your thought can be consolidating, but can also procrastinate your deprssive periods. This is because of the low levels of the feel good chemicals. You may find at times (and I certainly do) that you end up thinking of things that give you negative emotions simply because you can't feel the positive ones, and you forget that feeling flat and trying to distract yourself from thoughts that cause negativity is perhaps the best way to lift yourself from the depression hole.

Be aware that being alone with your thoughts is sometimes necessary, and makes the passing of time seem much quicker, but that you can easily fall into the trap of not doing anything else. It doesn't make your depression any worse in terms of intensity, but the further you get away from normality, the more difficult it is to see a way out. I have a 10 miunte strategy that works really well for me if on a particularly bad day, I can't get out of my little depressive hole. I'll post it up today on a new post... have a look if you like.

Dave

Dear Dave,

Thanks you for the effort you have made to try and make us understand the side of the depressive. What I have wanted most of all is to try and understand why it is that this man who I love above any other - the man who I gave everything up for, just pushes me aside and tries to make me think that he doesnt care for me.

I suppose that what I want to know most of all, is whether when he shouts at me and tells me he doesnt love me and wants me out of his life in a months time, whether this is in fact what he means? After telling me that he wants me out of his life, he becomes loving again - not too loving but still loving and affectionate and caring. Sometimes, I will put my hand on his leg as we sit together and watch television and he will do the same until he realises what he has done and removes it! They is all beyond my understanding.

I have read all that you have written and found it helpful. You and Polly have tried hard to impart information and allow me to see what it is like from the depressives side snmf this has helped me very much. But, how does my partner feel once he has raved and ranted tried to hurt me to the very core of my being? How does he feel when he says these awful things and how can I stop them when they are pouring from his mouth? How can I make him return to the man I love again? However can I help him? He wont talk. He says that talking brings out all the bad things inside him. Its better to just leave them where they are...

I know that he carries a certain guilt about his behaviour but I am unsure what to do about it once it starts. Also, do I simply just disbelieve what he is saying and take no notice and carry on as before?

I am mostly warm and loving to him. I kiss him when he goes to work, I hug him and touch him when I stand close to him. I talk to him and listen to him, cook for him and do things for him. He does things for me too. He gives me the strong impression of caring.

Confused is what I am - very much so. On one side he is behaving in a certain way and on the other, he is showing me warmth and caring. Experience has shown me that what he says is not what he means. Experience has shown me that yes, he DOES care for me. What am I to do?

Mel

Hi Mel,

I've just read you reply to me and the other posts that you have made in this forum. I can't speak from personal experience too much because I wasn't seeing anyone when I was going through my depressive phases. I think that you have a very good grasp of what it happening to your man; you understand the emotional turmoil that he is going through at this point in time, but you also know that his outbursts are out of character and completely unacceptable. Depression does make us all say things that we don't want to say, but this only really happens in the heat of the moment. If your partner is saying things to you out of the blue, for no real reason, then I would say that this is more a cause for concern.

It does sound like your partner doesn't really want to open himself up; do you think he could benefit from talking to others in a self help environment??? Or is that an impossible step at this stage.

You have to remember Mel, that there will be some tough times for you through all this, but that its just like anything else in life... there has to be good points and their has to be bad points. If I were you I would lay down the law... just once... to let him know where you stand (no more tantrums/no more nastiness/no more inconsiderate comments to hurt your feelings. Tell him that you think he needs to either attend an anger management/anxiety/depression self help group (let him choose exactly which one), explain to you why exactly he thinks his comments are justified or explain to him that he can do his own cleaning/washing/cooking until he can learn to be civil. It is clear that part of his behaviour is not rational, but it seems to be the case here that YOU know he is being unreasonable but are simply at a loss as what to do. You must know Mel, that you don't always have to treat your depressed friend with kid gloves; sometimes we need a reality check... and the reality is that your life is being made impossible at this point. Just don't wait until the next time he starts mouthing off. Approach him at a quiet time so he knows that there is a real problem, and that your concern is linked to his behaviour over time, rather than one specific incident.

Also, If this has been the situation for a considerable amount of time, don't feel bad about telling him to visit his parents or old friends (actually, you said he is still working despite his depression, so tell him to take a break and go on holiday by himself/with friends... and you take one as well for a few days). If you take a break from eachother for a week or two, it will give you time to recharge your batteries, and give him the chance to realise what he takes for granted. Remember, while depression might EXPLAIN ones words or actions.... it NEVER EXCUSES them. Depressed people are perfectly capable of acting with politeness and decorum, even if it does take a bit more effort than usual.

Of course, it's difficult to give any advice on the relatively small amount of info you have offered in this forum, so if you need to know anything more specific, send me an email and I'd be happy to offer more opinions/advice.

hi mel - i agree with dave... when my partner lays down the law it helps me to get a reality check and can shake me out of my mood. also that law makes you realise eventually that you are also really risking yoour relationship which i don't want to do (although i do sometimes forget that....). take care.... w

I'd like to say first how valuable David's and Wilson's comments are - you have given some great insights and presented the rest of us with lots to think about. In the context of this discussion, I would like to ask your opinion on whether it is useful for the partner/spouse/other close person of a depressed person proposing a negotiation of behaviours - for example, agreeing a time for the DP to "stay in the cave" without disturbing them, or agreeing a set of signals about whether it is all right to start a conversation, or offer a cup of tea, or agreeing how and when the DP can "just say no" to anything offered without then having to put up with being pressured about it? Conversely, they could agree on "rules of response" to the efforts of the partner/spouse etc in order to prevent too much hurt feelings, or self-blame.

I'd really welcome the thoughts of both of you on that!

Kathleen