We Can't Always Agree, But We can be Polite

Postby Leo Volont » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:31 pm

Dear Everyone,

Recent Posts and my responses have brought something to my notice, and that is that, while I may disagree with them in the most sensitive, urbane and polite manner, they simply see any form of ‘disagreement’, offered in even the most gracious way, as some flagrant insult to their honor, as some terrible wrong that has to be redressed. In short, if I disagree, they respond angrily, exhibiting hurt feelings, urge for revenge, and indignation that I should be so abusive of their cherished opinions, etc.

Well, of course, as anybody with a feeling heart and sympathy for the plight of all living creatures, I could understand how disagreeing with them could hurt their feelings.

But there is Intellectual Integrity to consider. I come from a University background, and I’ve been trained by repeated habit to stand by conclusions that I believe are backed up by substantial empirical evidence, and to surrender my opinions only if new evidence causes reason for significant doubt, but not just because my disagreement may hurt somebody’s feelings. Respect for the assumed Truth, above all, is the first… really the only obligation of an Intellectual.

But then there are the sensitive matters upon which we may disagree. Let’s say that somebody writes in and says that they are disgusted about how all the rules and moral expectations of Society hold them back, and it is so frustrating, and so they have decided to ignore all such instances of judgmental thinking and simply do what they feel best for their own personal development… particularly in regards to making a lot of money fast.

Now, of course, if these person’s actions could well be assumed to be in total isolation to the rest of Society, then, certainly, God Bless them and all and their efforts toward Prosperity. But with the implied admission that they would violate all of Society’s Norms, Values and Ethics to achieve their own personal ends, well… do you see my problem?

It is kind of the same as with somebody who writes in and says they want to be a mass murderer. One can be sympathetic and try to strike up a rapport, in order to be in a better position to help, but, in the end, one simply cannot agree.

Our World has adopted a belief Individual Self-Sufficiency. Those who survive, well, they survive, but those who don’t, well, they were not very Self-Sufficient, were they? The Rich act like Predators and prey upon the poor, and when the poor succumb to those concentrated and brutal ravages and predations, well, it is only lamented that the poor couldn’t have been more ‘competitive’, better educated, well, in fact, more like the people who intentionally destroyed them. The Poor are blamed because they could not defend themselves against insuperable odds. WelI, don’t believe that is right… or I mean, I don’t ‘think’ it is right. It’s just not because I am sentimental. I’ve studies too much History. Every Civilization, and there have been 21 Civilizations, have collapsed, and all because of the Same Thing, and that was because of the rise and dominance of that one Belief – Individual Self Sufficiency. For Civilizations to maintain and survive, they must believe in Interdependency and Cooperation. When Civilizations fragment down to Individuals all acting for their own individual interests , well, doesn’t that mean that there is no Civilization anymore? No? Am I wrong somehow?

So, as much as I can sympathize with people who want to take money away from other people, and violate them sexually, and murder them, well, when they write in, I simply have to take the chance that I might upset them and hurt their feelings, and then find some charming and tactful way to disagree with them. And then hope they don’t throw a tantrum about how abused and insulted they feel.

We can’t always agree intellectually, but we should still agree to be friends and to be polite.
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#1

Postby bert_ernie » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:46 pm

leo why should we agree to be friends & be polite? who says?

is being polite all that important? many people are very polite as they quietly stab you in the back or order the takeover of business x, country y or backyard z..

personally i value honesty & kindness over politeness.
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#2

Postby Leo Volont » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:03 am

bert_ernie wrote:leo why should we agree to be friends & be polite? who says?

is being polite all that important? many people are very polite as they quietly stab you in the back or order the takeover of business x, country y or backyard z..

personally i value honesty & kindness over politeness.



Hi Bernie,

Nice talking to you again.

Politeness is the greatest kindness.

And yes, I do advocate that people be invariably polite -- even when they are maneuvering to take over your business, or even when they are trying to steal your wife. Certainly, rudeness would not help.

Now, you mention ‘honesty’, but I am not sure in what context. Do you mean reporting things fairly, and in not rendering false stories for some personal advantage. Well, yes, I am of course for that kind of Honesty. But there is the kind of Honesty that is sometimes just gratuitous – unnecessary honesty. For instance, let’s say that a very small boy wants to try out for a Sports Team. Yes, he is honestly quite small, and I could generalize from that that I do not believe he will make the Team, or if making the Team, that he will be in any significant way a successful player. But I would say nothing. If he asked ‘my honest opinion’, well, even then I would tell him to go through with the try-outs, but if he gets cut to not be too upset about it… that there are other realms for his special talents. But other people would simply walk up to the lad and, being ‘honest’, would tell him he is too short and wasting his time.
So, of course, when we speak, our words should be sincere and honest. But the first rule of being fit for Society, I feel, is to remember that Silence is Golden. Not everything that we take mental note of needs to be commented on, especially if it might seem, well, impolite. Short people already know they are short. People with crooked noses already know they have crooked noses. They don’t need to be constantly reminded, honest or not.

But, yes, I can understand a certain point that you might be making – and that is that it is confusing when our Enemies are Polite… we come to think of them as ‘friends’ and then we feel betrayed when they make their move and toss us out of our business and walk around with our wife on their arm. I thought the same thing once. I grew up in a rough neighborhood and enemies acted like enemies and friends acted like friends. But then I went upscale and found that, well, it is never as easy playing in the Major Leagues. One must study people harder to determine whether they are friend, foe or indifferent. Friends are generally very helpful and supportive, but a very cunning enemy could become your friend for a while to simply ‘play you along’. Or a ‘foe’ that screws you over one day may decide that you would make a valuable Ally the next… especially if you had been a ‘good sport’ when you were screwed over. Life is complex. Friends and Enemies shift and move all over the playing board. So it is best to be polite to everybody. The person you are openly sneering and spitting at because you ‘hate’ them for whatever ancient reason form the past, well, you might find that someday they are the Gate Keeper on some Door you need to go through, and then where have your ‘honest’ feelings gotten you?

But, anyway, I really do not believe we are that far apart in our thinking.

And remember the context here… this is an Anger Management Page. If one actually studies Civility and aims at constant Politeness, well, it is almost impossible then to Behave Angrily. One would stop instantly because, well, ‘That’ would be ‘Making a Scene’… not very polite at all.
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#3

Postby bert_ernie » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:29 am

hi leo,

so i'm wrestling with whether i agree with you or not. i can't decide if i'm splitting hairs, arguing for the sake of arguing & wanting to be right. or if i actually have a point.

anyway, i guess politeness is just a label. & it depends exactly what you mean by being polite. similarly as it depends by what i mean by being honest. and i agree that if we have to choose between being polite & being rude, then being polite seems the better option.

if by being polite, you are referring to treating others with respect & kindness. maintaining calm emotions & acting out of calmness. then i guess those are all good things.

on the other hand, if it's more of a cynical kind of politeness then i don't see the benefit. if you get to the point where your words don't align with what you truly believe & feel, you risk being like a politician where you can't trust a word that comes out of their mouth because they'll say anything if it will get them more votes or craft the right public image for them. they may be more concerned with how they are coming across than simply conveying what they truly believe. or they may no longer actually believe anything. they've sold their soul or lost their way.

i read a book called "the four agreements". & the first of these was:

be impeccable with your word. speak with integrity. say only what you mean. avoid using the word to speak against yourself or gossip against others. use the power of your word in the direction of truth & love.

i guess that may describe in a better way how i believe we should aspire to live.
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#4

Postby Leo Volont » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:09 pm

bert_ernie wrote:hi leo,

....if by being polite, you are referring to treating others with respect & kindness. maintaining calm emotions & acting out of calmness. then i guess those are all good things.

....on the other hand, if it's more of a cynical kind of politeness then i don't see the benefit. if you get to the point where your words don't align with what you truly believe & feel, you risk being like a....(profound rat)



Oh, yes, being perfectly polite in the best of all senses... how you described it (oh, I am impressed at your ability to grasp all of this with such intelligence), anyway, with enough practice and insight into the Exact Nature of Politeness, well it will become a Second Nature and purely Sincere. this may sound silly, but I just got done reading a slew of books by Edith Wharton and Henry James... their books on High Society. Yes, there were plenty of villains, but what struck me was that there were characters, who by their upbringing and education – their families and the schools they went to – who were invariably and naturally polite given any situation. And this is not just fiction. I have read real chronicles from the past, and it seems that people from the Lower Classes would sometimes try to impersonate the Aristocracy, to get easy credit, or invitations to dinner or whatever, but what would give them away was that they couldn’t be consistently polite – they would fight back or be offended by things, but the real ‘Gentleman’ or ‘Lady’ would never lose their faint contented smile. When told that their ‘credit card’ was not accepted – “Oh Dear! Maybe there has been a mistake. Oh, I wonder whether my housekeeper forgot to send out the check…”. When told that the Marriage was off, we would hear them say something like, “Oh, well we certainly can’t go through with this thing if you have such serious reservations. Oh, yes, it might take some quick dancing to come up with something so that people won’t talk about it quite so much, but we will figure out somehow to come out of this with our heads held high. Oh, and I will miss you. Please let me know if you change your mind… what’s been undone can be done again, I’m sure.” NOTHING ruffled these people. Yes, they were ruffled on the inside, and I am sure they had many a sleepless night, but the NEVER made a scene. They were always in FULL Control. And it WAS perfectly sincere. This was who they BECAME. They WERE Gentleman. They WERE Ladies.

We also, with years, maybe decades, of practice, can become true Ladies and Gentleman. And, yes, the last trick of it all is to actually be sincere about it.
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