I want to kill someone.

To teach us to love ourselves more, love other people more or love this moment more

As soon as we learn that message, there is no need to suffer anymore

JuliusFawcett wrote:To teach us to love ourselves more, love other people more or love this moment more

As soon as we learn that message, there is no need to suffer anymore

"As soon as we learn that message, there is no need to suffer anymore".... that is what the French Existentialists said about suicide. it is difficult to know what they really meant by that... they aren't around to ask anymore.

No, Julius, unless one is a rich drug addict off on his own personal island somewhere, Life will always have a degree of Suffering. I thought you were onto some Insight when you claimed to know the 'meaning' of Suffering. I had not seen this in you before, but I guess you were for a moment just being offhand and glib... that isn't like you. Usually you are quite sincere... something I had grown to count on in you.

But even I do not go so far as saying that Suffering has a purpose. It is just inevitable, and we must learn to face Suffering without shirking it. that is the only problem I have with the Happiness People, that they seem willing to sacrifice Duty, Responsibility, Obligation, Charity, Nobility of Character, to throw all of that overboard just as long as they can clutch at some thin hope of attaining Happiness. But once a person is Happy, well, so what? I've been happy before. it is not really the most Sublime Emotion. Happiness, alongside the Nobler Feelings, well, comes in kind of thin.

Now, in regards to Suffering, in the Catholic Sense (and even there I must qualify and say in the 'old' Catholic Sense, and that particularly of some of the more religiously zealous of the Religious Orders -- the Carmelites and Dominicans -- I think the Franciscans may have grown fat) but they see the Willing acceptance of Suffering as Penance... a sort of a Life as Christ Lived... well, speaking of only that last 15 hours or so... Christ really didn't have it hard until just at the end.

I read a story about the Stigmatics. Do you know about the Stigmatics. it is something of a ghastly miracle, but a large number of Saints exhibited for years... for decades, the bleeding wounds of Christ, and they could not eat or drink. their entire lives were like Christ as he hung on the Cross, bleeding from the hands, head, and side, and not able to eat or drink. Its happened in a number of cases in modern times, and the cases have been well documented and scrutinized. anyway, what happens to these Saints is that Christ appears to them in a Vision and offers them a Favor, saying "What would you like from me?" Well, instead of asking for something a bit more practical, they think it their Religious Duty to ask for His Suffering. and they get it! Now, I am a very religious person, but even I would not dare to ask for anything that extreme. Right now I have arthritis in my hips, and that is quite painful enough. But, yes, you can see that the Catholics had idealized suffering.

I think that actually Christ should have been the Messiah. You know, King of Kings, and set up World Civilization on a good solid moral footing. But in the week before he 'gave up the cup'... In the Garden Christ frankly quit the Job and told God that he didn't want to do it anymore. This is when He lost God's Protection. he has lived a charmed life up until then, but not if he Quits! So, he was defenseless against his enemies who grabbed him up, beat him up, whipped him and hung him up on the cross to die. Well, his friends paid for the privilege of taking him down before it went that far.

But the Belief was the Christ did not in fact come to be the Messiah, but that he should suffer and die for the Sins of Humanity. What else did they have to believe. Even though it was witnessed and is handed down to us in writing, the Christ quit his job, abandoning Humanity (probably because he had some qualms about what it would take to be the Messiah). he frankly died for nothing. But the true believers were not willing to accept that.

Oh, the Moral Qualms. Remember in that last Week, Christ had Blasted a Tree for not having figs on the ready when he was hungry, and he got nasty and made a scene in the Temple, overturning the tourist nick-nack tables and chasing the venders around with a scourge. Jesus came to feel ashamed of himself, as well he should have. Gentleman, even when they are Messiahs should not cause scenes.

But, whatever the initial cause, Suffering and doing Atonement for our own sins and the sins of others has become very important, and, what's more important, very effective. Every First Magnitude Saint that I know of derived a great deal of their Spiritual Energies from Sacrifice and Atonement and Suffering. the Most Powerful Saint in History -- Saint Vincent Ferrer, well, he had a Troupe of 30,000 Flagellents that followed him around, marching 30 miles a day in bear feet. that was something of a Miracle in itself. he would arrive in Towns and boast of his Troupe of 30,000 -- barely eating, walking in bear feet, and flogging themselves the whole time BUT NOT ONE OF THEM SICK OR SLOW. Then Vincent would ask that all of the Hospitals and Clinics disgorge their patients and bring them to the town square, and they he would heal them all. If time was of the essence and some clinic to far out of town, he would deputize a local Priest to go their and do the Healing -- being told what to say and what to do. and these Priests, would be amazed that suddenly they had the power to make the blind see and the lame walk. But only for the day. that was that Huge Supply of Suffering and Penance that Vincent Ferrer was able to draw from.

But what power is there in Happiness. One reason why we see no Miracles nowadays is, well, even the Catholic Church has begun to turn its back on Suffering. Only a few of the sternest Religious Orders keep it up.

The miracle of love comes out of suffering willingly, learn to love your arthritic hip rather than allowing it to turn you sour and you will be more able heal the people that you meet

JuliusFawcett wrote:The miracle of love comes out of suffering willingly, learn to love your arthritic hip rather than allowing it to turn you sour and you will be more able heal the people that you meet

I'm sour?

I guess this conversation is just not being productive anymore.

Well, yes, I am a little bit sour now. You see, I just lost a friend.

Forgiveness is a part of being a Catholic, yes?

I have wanted to shoot people since I'm a teenager. Guns and men using them to kill is a huge turn on for me. It used to freak me out, but I've met others on line who feel the way, some even claim to have killed, but I don't believe them.

The idea of doing it for real doesn't bother, getting caught does. I wish I didn't feel this way, I wish I didnt have to worry about it all the time, but I do.

Good mental health is doing no harm to yourself or anyone else.

Try considering the difference between wanting and liking. There is no need to want anything. Focus on what you would like instead, to keep your liberty, your sanity, your good relationships.

I live in the desert and am happy for someone to take me out, kill me and let the coyotes take care of the rest. I'm done. Any takers?

Justsayinso wrote:I live in the desert and am happy for someone to take me out, kill me and let the coyotes take care of the rest. I'm done. Any takers?

I spent some time in the American Southwest -- Coachella Valley California, and Arizona. But that was years ago and it may have been better then than it is now. What desert are you talking about? At this time of year the deserts in the American Southwest actually get kind of cold at night -- too cold to ride a motorcycle in the early morning without wearing some kind of a 'space suit' -- heated gloves and vest. But the days become just right for hiking. I bit later than now the mountains that rise above the desert floor actually develop a Snow Line. All through Arizona there are many well maintained hiking trails, especially up into the Mountains that had been originally constructed by Franklin D. Roosevelt's WPA (Work Progress Administration).

Why are you so sad?