A Few Words On Censorship

I don’t agree with tokeless and think his perception and defense of government mandates as “good” is solidly off the mark, but his observations are founded in and connected to reality.

Oh, can you point out where I have said I think government mandates are good... I don't think I said that. Tell me Richard, did you have the vaccine in the end, before you went back to Colombia? Was that mandated or could you say you're not having it?

Tricky decision for Putin. Not as black and white as the media assume. Ukraine is a country indeed but the East is drawn towards Russia. There has been a serious civil war, as a result. This was coming to a head. Now Eastern Ukrainians are celebrating but western Ukrainians feel the loss of their national unity. Maybe Putin could have sent in peacekeepers while not actually endorsing independence. Maybe he was forced to make that choice in the end.
It always strikes me as odd, though, that Germany killed millions of Jews, Slavs and others in WW2 and today seems to have gained status. Russia lost 20 million fighting Hitler and still many people live in poverty. Given Putin's family died in the hollocaust something must feel not right.
Expect fuel hikes. At least that may reduce traffic.

davidbanner99@ wrote:It always strikes me as odd, though, that Germany killed millions…and today seems to have gained status. Russia lost 20 million fighting Hitler and still many people live in poverty.

Do you believe the generation of today owes the debts of the generation that committed those acts roughly 80 years ago? You think the German youth should be held accountable and the Russian youth should be seen as heroes? That strikes me as odd.

Maybe it has nothing to do with the sins or bravery of generations past and more to do with how each government has evolved over the last 80 years.

Do you believe the generation of today owes the debts of the generation that committed those acts roughly 80 years ago? You think the German youth should be held accountable and the Russian youth should be seen as heroes? That strikes me as odd.

The World Jewish Association thinks it's absolutely right that Germany and any other country that was connected to the holocaust should owe a debt for their involvement... they have claimed hundreds of millions in damages. Is that odd?

That should be Congress, not Association

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:

davidbanner99@ wrote:It always strikes me as odd, though, that Germany killed millions…and today seems to have gained status. Russia lost 20 million fighting Hitler and still many people live in poverty.

Do you believe the generation of today owes the debts of the generation that committed those acts roughly 80 years ago? You think the German youth should be held accountable and the Russian youth should be seen as heroes? That strikes me as odd.

Maybe it has nothing to do with the sins or bravery of generations past and more to do with how each government has evolved over the last 80 years.

I agree with you that modern Russia will be very different to WW2 Russia. A little better, perhaps?
Nobody knows if Stalin agreed to appease Hitler. Hitler's decision to invade Russia totally surprised him. At that point, Russia was in the war, willing or not. For Russia it was a war of survival. Some 20 million Soviets died or starved.
Most people (including Russians) agree Stalin repressed thousands in gulags and via deportations. Even so, what Germany did was far worse. Jews rounded up in Poland (Roman Polanski was there). We all know the story. Germany lost the war and was divided by the allies.
The way I see it is this: Russia needed support and cooperation to embrace democracy in 1990 but there was a rush to push NATO alliances in the East and encircle Russia. Trump understood this well enough. All that led to gradual erosion of democracy in Russia.
Germany meantime - in my view - has caused tension in Ukraine by pushing the E.U. interests to the point of provoking ethnic conflict. As well as championing obligatory vaccination in the E.U.
I don't agree with Putin's politics but - in his place - I'd be damned angry. Even if modern day Russians go in for piercings and nightclubs I think those who fought in Betlin would have wanted a future of stability.
Theresa May recently said something spot on. Lack of democracy isn't just affecting Russia - it's dying globally.

Here's the reaction in East Ukraine. Putin recognised the Eastern wish for independence. He probably knew the civil war would go on endlessly. It means Ukraine as it once existed is much smaller. So, nationalists will seek support from Poland and the Baltics. It's a real cauldron for a Russia Nato war.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jzNPfVQ2VGo

tokeless wrote:The World Jewish Association thinks it's absolutely right that Germany and any other country that was connected to the holocaust should owe a debt for their involvement... they have claimed hundreds of millions in damages. Is that odd?

I think there is a bit of a difference between atrocities of a government 80 years ago and atrocities committed 150 years ago.

To the extent there are living victims and the government that committed the atrocities still exists, I don’t find it odd that an organization will champion restitution for what the actual victims suffered.

I don’t believe in 2nd generation or indirect victimhood, same as I don’t believe it correct to make another generation pay for the sins of their fathers.

Do you?

Richard@DecisionSkills wrote:

tokeless wrote:The World Jewish Association thinks it's absolutely right that Germany and any other country that was connected to the holocaust should owe a debt for their involvement... they have claimed hundreds of millions in damages. Is that odd?

I think there is a bit of a difference between atrocities of a government 80 years ago and atrocities committed 150 years ago.

To the extent there are living victims and the government that committed the atrocities still exists, I don’t find it odd that an organization will champion restitution for what the actual victims suffered.

I don’t believe in 2nd generation or indirect victimhood, same as I don’t believe it correct to make another generation pay for the sins of their fathers.

Do you?

No, I don't. The current government have taken on the national shame because of the historical significance of what happened and they openly recognise their countries role in it. It's a shame other countries haven't done similar for their roles in human suffering.

FLASH
DONALD TRUMP

Trump came out in support of Putin's decision. Trump agrees with the intervention in East Ukraine. In the past, Trump and Chuck Norris had business interests in Russia.

My take is this may prove not to be at all easy for Putin. Many people in Ukraine will oppose being under sway of the Russian Federation so civil war could deepen. Worse still, Baltic States may send aid or mercenaries to Ukraine. If it turns into a kind of Vietnam for Russia, Putin's popularity will decline yet more at home.
Despite that the E.U. is to blame.

davidbanner99@ wrote:My take is this may prove not to be at all easy for Putin. Many people in Ukraine will oppose being under sway of the Russian Federation so civil war could deepen. Worse still, Baltic States may send aid or mercenaries to Ukraine. If it turns into a kind of Vietnam for Russia, Putin's popularity will decline yet more at home.
Despite that the E.U. is to blame.

How is the EU to blame?

Not a putin supporter but all this mess could be a plot to throw out puding and his decade long dictatorship, he has already been declared bad guy at media if you have watched the news tonight..thats my two cents.

desperate788 wrote:Not a putin supporter but all this mess could be a plot to throw out puding and his decade long dictatorship, he has already been declared bad guy at media if you have watched the news tonight..thats my two cents.

That's a thoughtful point. Putin did feel he was being baited into conflict in order to discredit him, and cancel the oil projects In the end, I guess he had no more patience left.

"How is the EU to blame?[/quote]

I blame the EU for pushing Ukraine into a division. The EU promised freedom of movement and a constitution. Ukrainian people fell for the whole agenda. Russia is less prosperous and still not developed so the EU seemed to offer more. That totally split society into pro-Russia and pro-EU, leading to ethnic war.
The EU deliberately fanned the flames because their unelected leaders craved expansion.
The EU lied to us all about its true nature. EU citizens have no constitution or any of the liberties promised.
I tend not to like Putin but the EU I consider a disgrace.