Layers of Influence

**Posts:** 5126 · by **Triarius** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:42 pm

Freud and others have attempted this kind of thing before. Freud had the Ego, Id, and Super Ego, and science is starting to understand the separation within the brain that are similar to these things.

For instance, if you youtube "phantoms in the brain" (at work, can't post youtube links)

In my study of the body, genetics, neurology, and other stuff, I am formulating a "Hierarchy of Influence" ... think of the OSI model for humans.

1) Surface
Measurable actions and words and behaviors, what people see/hear

2) Rational/Logic
This is what we use when making decisions/planning

3) Impulse
This is information that comes from more primitive parts of the brain, like adrenaline reactions and fear.

4) Subconscious/Memory
Self explanatory. This is where habits reside

5) Physical/Body
This is things like eyes, hormones, ears, (etcetera) are.

Okay, time for a practical example of how this system works.

a) The eyes see a face
b) the face is analyzed by our most primitive centers to discover expression, and if we know this person
c) depending on the information from b) we cultivate an impulse reaction (If it's someone we hate/fear we get adrenaline, for instance)
d) also, depending on the information from our subconscious and impulse, we analyze what to do and how to react
e) we finally verbalize our reaction/action

Now, there is a problem with this heirarchy, and that is that it doesn't take into account things like oppositional centers in the brain, though technically they exist in the same layer. For instance the Impulse center responsible for lying is in one hemisphere and the inhibitor is in the other hemisphere.

Once I get home, I will cook up a graphic for this.

Does anyone know of anything similar to this?

**Posts:** 8044 · by **satanstoystore** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:20 pm

i like just about everything in your model. something might take care of the discrepancies is challenging the subconscious model. where is it located? do animals have it? how else could the results of the subconscious be achieved without an actual subconscious? etc

**Posts:** 5126 · by **Triarius** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:49 pm

satanstoystore wrote:i like just about everything in your model. something might take care of the discrepancies is challenging the subconscious model. where is it located? do animals have it? how else could the results of the subconscious be achieved without an actual subconscious? etc

This is the same argument that was brought against Freud, and fortunately, I have about 100 years of neurology research on him!

Basically, what I refer to as "subconscious" is the more primitive brain, the parts that do a lot of the "behind the scenes" work that we don't even notice, things like facial recognition, and association in memory and stuff like that.

And yes, this is mostly what animals have; the primitive instinct driven behaviors observable in most animals, with rudimentary learning (If I do this, I get a treat). Very similar things exist in people, and in fact, impulsive people rely on the subconscious MORE than "normal" people.

A couple of examples of Layer 4 would be some functions of the amygdala and the basal ganglia. This is were raw motivation occurs, which then speaks to Layer 3, giving you the impulse to do something.

Make sense?

I'm going to start working on a graphic representation of this soon.

**Posts:** 8044 · by **satanstoystore** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:22 pm

Excellent.

seta37 wrote:Now, there is a problem with this heirarchy, and that is that it doesn't take into account things like oppositional centers in the brain, though technically they exist in the same layer. For instance the Impulse center responsible for lying is in one hemisphere and the inhibitor is in the other hemisphere.

Dr. Ken giuffre might have something on this. Like the brain goes through a switching process. Data comes in, is recognized, sorted, forwarded appropriately, and the body given the appropriate resources for a response.

**Posts:** 5126 · by **Triarius** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:51 pm

Starting from Left to Right:

1) Physical/Body

2) Subconscious/Memory/Involuntary Reflexes

3) Impulse/Habit

4) Cognitive/Conscious/Thought

5) Overt Action

Example A)
You get punched in the face, sensed by Layer 1 (L1) (skin)
L2 identifies "Hey! We just got punched in the face!" and releases adrenaline
L3 immediately attempts to either retaliate or flee
L4 may or may not interfere with L3, depending on learned behavior
L5 the visible result of the internal process

Example B)
L1 Soldier (eyes) sees a face
L2 Identifies "ENEMY!!!"
L3 According to reinforced learning, impulse to pull trigger
L4 remains disengaged
L5 Brain stem orders trigger finger to squeeze

I could go on and on with examples, but I think I've conveyed the idea.

This was a fun graphic to make!

**Posts:** 187 · by **zae50jc** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:02 pm

Why are those steps called Hierarchy of Influence? Influence what or who ?

**Posts:** 5126 · by **Triarius** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:24 am

influence on behavior

**Posts:** 2 · by **dbutze** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:36 pm

Very interesting. I appreciate the post.

So how can we apply this idea to benefit an individual's behavioral patterns?

**Posts:** 5126 · by **Triarius** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:56 pm

lol, you have to understand how each part affects you and dig down to realize where your influences are coming from

i don't think it would be too useful outside of the theoretical.

Layers of Influence

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