RAGE problems

But isn't nearly all of your destructiveness wedded to the ritualization of Anger? The FORM you follow is that you get mad and you smash something. It's the little dance you do. Could you be happy destroying stuff if you skipped the step of appearing to go out of control?

This is very interesting point. Need to think about it. The problem is that I am always destroying stuff only when angry so I don't know yet how would it be without the anger factor. I am thinking... What if I am making anger just as an excuse and my real motivation is to destroy stuff. Hmm.. not sure if this is right. But I must admit, I have a lot of destructive thoughts in my head a lot of time. I am very quick to imagine the worst case scenario in a situation... I will need some time to digest this thought to see if it has any sense...

Thanks, for the hobbies recommendations, I think all you mentioned would fit me. I need something other than those games I play. In those games is always one who is a winner and one who is a loser. There are also games or situations, jobs in life that both parties would be winning. I need to find this kind of games. Lately I even don't have such a strong pull into those games. Yes, the spring is starting and things are starting to open again...

But yeah I also said that my goal when playing games like poker is to be able to control my anger when things don't go my way. I believe if I will control myself there, I would be able to control myself anywhere. So far, I wasn't able to do this. I wasn't able to stay organized so there is no surprise I didn't make it.

Hi Voyager,

I was thinking of what you said about how nearly all of our activity choices are competitive. It really screws us up. I read of a study in which they went off to the islands somewhere to find people uncontaminated by our competitive culture and they set up a simple board game where there were only a minimal amount of squares on the board and just one piece which each player had a turn alternately moving the piece from square to square, and every time the piece got to the end of the board closest to one player he would get a dollar and the same for the other player. The islanders would ask "What's the trick?" and take turns moving the piece quickly back and forth back and forth until the Experimenters called off their very expensive experiment. But in the West the players would say "This is impossible! Nobody can win!" And the piece would stay in the middle of the board, each move being vetoed by the next players move. Conditioning in competition made idiots out of them.

Anyway, I was thinking of something fun to do that wasn't competitive. You should take up acting. Formally I suppose there are classes you can take. Yeah, I just took a look in the Self Help books, and there's books about that too. I was thinking that your hobby could be to select different personas for different parts of towns or for the different stores you go to. Be somebody different wherever you go. This would get you used to "Being In Character". You see, the trick here is that it would be useful that none of your Characters be angry or irritable .... or maybe one so you could go through the steps of anger artificially, you know, to see "the man behind the screen"... the mechanics of your anger so that it becomes demystified.

You know, so far I haven't seen anybody say so but if you did take Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to it's logical conclusion then you would tend to put all your thinking and evaluating in the service of maximizing all of your personal interests. When talking with other people it would no longer be important to be "honest" but you would be thinking "how is it best that I play this conversation?". We hear about "con men" that opportunistically go from one fake persona to another, but it is easy enough to imagine that there are scores of what we can ironically call "Self Made Men" who are idealized fabrications of what are simply the 'best laid plans' that these people could come up with. Like Andrew Yang who spend five minutes running for president and his big plan was to hand out free money (how original for a politician) but that guy was a regular 2 dimensional cartoon character, really kind of obviously just working to a simple plan, but it's amazing the number of people that took it at face value (but all the other "Phonies" saw the scam from a mile away.

I remember one story I heard about from England at about the turn of the previous Century, before the Wars changed everything, That common people were beginning to realize that it was possible to 'pass' for the gentile classes. The clothes were available. the only hurdle was language and manners. But there were etiquette books. Heck, everybody had access to the Jane Austen novels. and then there was annunciation and elocution. Going to the English "Public Schools " (not public at all so why do they call them that... they meant Very Private Schools for the Upper Class Only Thankyou Schools) but elocution classes were popping up in London and you could learn how to speak right just like My Fair Lady and Eliza Doolittle. But, yes, the story I heard this girl, the daughter of a cool miner in Manchester decided to escape her Class Fate and make herself a lady read all the books and took the elocution courses and got the cloths and went to the Continent to practice being Gentile English with the foreigners and just waited for an opportunity to insert herself in Society somewhere. Well, all things come to she who waits and she found her in and got married well and since she was a real character she became something of a matron of local society, that is, until her husband died and a few social rivals began to wonder where the hell she originally came from. Well, somebody cared enough to actually spend money on detectives and official poking around then confronted her with it: "You are just a daughter of a coal miner from Manchester!" She just laughed and said "I haven't been that girl for the last 40 years!" The idea there is that she consciously remade herself. I wonder if any of the Cognitive Behavioral Psychologists ever thought about their Therapy in these terms, of Acting, or establishing a Pretense. Often we see advice "Just Be Yourself" and it now strikes me as almost idiotic. We can choose to be whoever we want. Why would we want to be some random ordinary person when we could have the Custom Deluxe Luxury Model as easy as just BEING that? "Fake it until you make it".

Hey. How is going? I am doing good. I am still thinking how to prevent any new rage explosion.

The thing about the acting might work, but I am not a big fan of it. I think it is very difficult to put a new mask on and pretend you are somebody else. Sooner or later the same things pop up. So I think more appropriate way is to go digging deeper and deeper and try to find the root of a problem. And then I can start changing from the inside out.

Even great actors need quite some time to accept their new role. They need to start living the lifestyle the new role demands. Only then they can fully sink in. So this might also work for me. I think this a a sort of CBT. First I need to well establish the new role I want to play in life. I need to foresee how my reactions should look like when life challenges me. Let the role be the best version of myself...

I am a very bad loser. I was asking my close relative in the past days and she said I just couldn't stand losing when I was a child. But I have never learned to lose with dignity. Yet. I think all of my rage explosions are somehow connected with losing, either online games or real life situations. And when I explode I lose even more. Yeah, I am even punishing myself for the loss. When playing games for example, I even start losing on purpose.. But this is of course just making me more and more angry... I will need to actively work on this and try to rewire my brain. I need to learn how to have a more zen approach to this.

Oh, sorry. I got called away on an urgent business trip and was kept working, or I would have gotten back to you sooner.

Yes, I have the same issues with "acting the best possible 'me'" as you do, and that is settling upon my character's personal.
It becomes more like a list of negatives: a list of traits that you DON'T want. But I created a Dream Suggestion so that my dreams would model exemplary Persona Types. The advantage there is that if you Dream Mind can SHOW a persona, then it is inside you somewhere, right? Recently in my Dreams there have been Authority Characters or Mentoring Characters who had cautioned me to be on my best behavior (not something you would ever want to do to somebody else in public). I think that kind of Dream Work Pressure might be really good for me.

Also, well, many people think that humor is a good thing. But I noticed that when I try to be amusing during a dream, well, it is like trying to make cats laugh. It's made me realize that humor is probably a thing to reserve for 'familiar' friends. The English Language has lost the distinction between Familiar and Formal because the Reaction after the English Civil War was to toss the Familiar entirely out of the language (we know longer have a choice between the Familiar "thou" and the Formal "you". And so I told myself "okay, no more trying to be a funny guy in dreams. Makes me look stupid or something". And, yeah, it seems I only had to tell myself that once.

So, yeah, see if you have access to your Dreams and that way you can use Dream Work to help.

Sorry again for the delay.

Hello again

I am still abstinent from rage. And I think I feel much better now. I am beginning to learn how to control my anger. It is still not perfect here and there some curse word blows out of me. I also punched a wall once I remember. I was still putting myself in the situations that are likely to anger me. So I was playing poker also, but I stayed disciplined. Couple of times I was very close to blow out, but I decided I do not. Yes, in one of those times, however, I punched a wall.

An issue is that people don't forget quickly my rage episodes. Or threats and all the bad things that came out of my mouth when I blew up. So these past episodes are still causing problems in the present for me. There might be relationships that can never be healed again and people that wouldn't want me near them. My mind or ego then quickly starts to think how injustice is happening to me. And this then could be another source for anger. And, yeah, really, if I show just a little bit of anger to those people it will just confirm their opinion of me. This can turn into a vicious cycle.

Thanks, Leo for replying, even if it is late (I am also late on reply), hope you had a good trip:)

Anger is a common problem i have anger issues i think im subconsciously very angry to my sister thing is im consciously too. While driving to work i would beat a few people everyday if i were a strong man

desperate788 wrote:Anger is a common problem i have anger issues i think im subconsciously very angry to my sister thing is im consciously too. While driving to work i would beat a few people everyday if i were a strong man

Yes, it is interesting what you say in regards to you're saying you would beat up people everyday if you were stronger. That has been shown to be true across the board, that people who claim to be "Out of Control" still pick and choose the times when they explode, apparently being careful not to antagonize much bigger men, or those in authority. That means that they are angry but they're not suicidal.

But then that takes us to a place where if people are NOT "out of control" then is it just Drama Queenism? Are people just putting on an elaborate show to get attention. Or maybe it is for their own benefit, that a dramatic performance makes them think that their Life Story has depth and meaning.

Hey.

I see in myself that when I am active and I workout and I am getting stronger, the less angry I am. I am more prone to fall into rage and anger patterns when I am not active and the weaker I get. I think different hormones are flowing through your body.

When you feel week you could fall quickly under lot of stress. Every man could be a potential threat. A lot of cortisol, adrenaline is flowing through the body. But when you feel strong and powerful you probably don't care much about others and the environment around you. Of course there will always be some stressors in life so just getting strong isn't enough. One very strong person could destroy A LOT in just one blowout. So it is still good to learn the techniques to manage the anger.

By the way I am also starting to meditate. I am now trying the Vipassana meditation techniques. I think it is giving me very calm mind when I do it. I wasn't doing it very very regularly but I am getting some results out of it. I Want to make it a routine.

Hi Voyager, Yeah, I understand the dynamic you are explaining, that the Strong Lion has less to be angry about than the Cornered Rat. However, what I have found in my own life is that Strength Comes Before a Fall, that while in the sort of "manic" phase of riding high I would get a sense of Rank, Dominance, Status and Territory, and all those things are stuff that take defending. When I was just a member of the pack there wasn't anything special to defend, but once you have prestige and territory, then you are sort of held as an emotional hostage to that. A King has to live on top of the the Hill in a stone Castle, with crocodiles in the moot.

Oh, Vipassana Meditation. But don't you find South Asian Buddhism to be kind of cynical and nihilistic, especially when you are talking about Pali stuff that is supposed to be closer to the original Buddhism but I think what they mean is closer to the First Buddhist Reaction which mostly wiped out what the Buddha was actually talking about. You see, all that "Original Buddhism" retains so much of the ubiquitous Brahministic Beliefs of the Region: Reincarnation, Karmic Determination of Rebirth into Castes, that you have to ask yourself what was so revolutionary? "Suffering Sources from Desire. Things are Impermanent. There is the Doctrine of No-Soul but it is contradicted in all the non-sense that persists in maintaining Reincarnation and Karmic Re-Brith. Rebirth of WHAT!? SO, my intuition tells me that Buddha was just a typical 6th Century Philosopher who arrived at a basically Materialistic View of the World, that the Brahmins with their Caste System that had it's amoral foundation in the Principle that the Aryan Castes DESERVED to rule at the top because they EARNED the right over thousands of lives in which they themselves moved up from the Low Castes by doing their Duty impeccably. Buddha saw that as a huge scam! We KNOW how Life works: we are born once to biological parents and then we die. And there was no reason to be so pessimistic in tone: "Desire is Suffering". What about when you GET what you Desire? That ain't so bad, is it? I think were we get Cynical Pessimistic Doctrines is because Buddhism was connected almost from the start with Monasteries.

Voyager, have you ever thought about what a Monastery REALLY is? I've been to East Asia and I've seen for myself there, and the Western Monasteries run the same Business Model: they are ORPHANAGES. Yeah, these Feudal Societies are open to people only if they have Place and Standing. Disgraced people and those who are banished need somewhere to go and if they still have money then they can give a Monastery an Endowment for themselves and live out the rest of their lives behind the Walls without being bothered from the outside, you know, the Doctrine of Holy Sanctuary. But MOSTLY Monasteries are in the business of making unwanted babies go away. Poor people will hide a pregnant "virgin" daughter and then nose pinch the baby and throw it's body in the river. But Rich People have the resources to be more careful with the fragile feelings of the young girl involved and reassure her the baby will be sent to a Monastery and be a saint, and she herself can go back to being a virgin with a wax hymen on her wedding night.

Now think how you would administer a Monastery. You need to keep expenses down. Nobody is going to get fat. Meet eating is a Sin, and it is cheaper. Fasting is a virtue and the Monastery saves on it's food budget for two days a week. and THEN the Monastery doesn't want any trouble. really the whole idea behind Meditation, in the Monasteries is :

Hi Voyager, Yeah, I accidentally hit ENTER, and then it allowed me to go into Edit and I finished and then it said, Nope, you can't edit after all, so let me take back up where I left off:

... the whole idea behind Meditation in the Monastery Setting, where we get nearly all our Meditational Formats, is: SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP! You Are Not Important Enough To Make Demands! If We Give You What You Want You Would Just Ask For More. So SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP. God Willl Make It Better Because We Won't.

Think about it. The Active Social Community is never required to SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP. All those Traditions of Meditation come from, well, Warehouses for Bastards, right?

I have a sort of a form of Meditation I do. Nothing fancy but based on Psychology, that the "Mental Executive" can only coordinate so many resources so I overload my mind with counting to 100 and repeating. Yeah, at first an active mind will force out the Count, but just start counting again, silently of course. Soon what happens is the Count forces the Active Ego Thinking to stop... the count too... and passive thoughts and images arise, you know, Hypnogogic Imagery. It's very relaxing and it is a mechanism for calming an active mind much more quickly than waiting for it to settle itself.

Hello again.

I would not go much into replying about meditation. I don't know much about the history of it and how it is used in the environment where it has developed originally. I would just say that if somebody feels that meditation is giving him benefits he should use it. I felt this way so I will be still using it.

I wanted to ask for advice for a thing that is annoying me. So today is Saturday tomorrow will be Sunday. I have a neighbor that is constantly making a lot of noise and it disturbs me. He has a workplace next to my house, in fact it is all together one building my tiny house and his workplace. He has a lot of machines and he is constantly using them. I am also quite sensitive to noise, I always had trouble sleeping if there was even small disturbance. At least at night here is all quiet so I am thankful for that. But... It is annoying me, I feel I am getting angrier and angrier the longer it lasts. Today he was the whole day making something. PAK PAK PAK PAK, TOK TOK TOK TOK, WRRRRRUUUM. It is making me crazy. Usually I go away a bit out when it is too much for me. But probably this isn't the good solution. Now I am also working on something and I would like to stay concentrated at home. I even don't know if I can do anything about it. At the end it is his place. And a confrontation might bring even more hard feelings. Stupid people feel powerful when they are making a lot of noise. Sometimes I feel like he is annoying me on purpose. I think he doesn't like me being here. I am here for 2 years, he is here for his whole life probably. He wants to be the king of the street.

I believe that some of my previous blowouts were partially connected to that. When I went crazy I also started making noise. I banged and I screamed and I broke stuff so the neighbor could hear. But how I do it is not socially acceptable, they put you in a mad house if you do it like that. But of course it all OK if you do it the socially acceptable way. The first day I came into this house, he was making a lot of noise. And he behaved like he owns the whole street. I really have a problem with him. I think he has also a lot of unresolved issues in his life. What do you recommend? Do I speak with him about my issues? I think once when he will be very loud I will lose it and I will go for a talk. What if I have a girl at my place and he starts banging and wrumming.. No way I could stand it... Also... I am pretty sure that I will move away from this place in the future so is it worth bothering? Well I will reply to myself haha. I think I will need to face him... But still tell me what you think.

Why do we as people have to make so much noise? Listen to the nature. What can you hear? All the voices of animals are far from what even one human can make. And in the nature all the voices just feel in order somehow. It is calming. Why can't we be like that?

Good Morning Voyager,

Well, did you buy or are you renting. If you bought a place that is not just Next To but actually conjoined to the House of a neighbor that you found you hated on the very first day, well, weren't you thinking? But if you are renting the solution is easy. Find a new place. If the neighbors are close then visit the neighborhood every night for a week and keep your eyes and ears open for craziness. Get a note from your Real Estate Agent that would account for you visiting the neighborhood a lot. Yeah, once lived in a town where there were thousands of homes that were mostly always downwind of a Sewage Plant. On days when the wind would shift the Real Estate Agents would blitz the area with Showings and get people to sign on the dotted line, and only after they moved in would they realize it was Schittville. All they would have needed to do was walk up and knock on any door and ask "Is this neighborhood okay?"

If you bought then you need to sell. Maybe the Guy would like to buy your property just so he would never have to ever worry about another neighbor like you again.

But certainly don't complain about the noise. If it were loud music, yes, but Shop Noise is how he makes a living. You can't expect him to stop that, right?

But, yeah, with the Meditation Thing I was just warning you away from believing in all of the bull crap that comes along with Meditation. New Age Stuff is a huge rabbit hole which you don't want to go down.